The Secret is Beginner's Mind

NOTE: please forgive typos, this is a transcript from our Vlog, so it is imperfect in that way, enjoy!

Hello journey yours. Welcome to the podcast. 

We're so glad you're here. Thank you for being on the journey with us. 

All right. What are we 

talking about today? We're talking about beginner's mind. 

Beginner's mind. This is like something we're always referring to. So maybe this will be helpful , just to go deep into beginner's mind.

 That's what I was thinking. I'm gonna read Shunryu Suzuki. One of his quotes, 

right? His mind Shunryu Suzuki was one of the first Japanese and masters to come over to America and teach Westerners in his books.

Zen Mind Beginner's mind was kind of one the main books to read in Zen Buddhism.

So, he says if your mind is empty, it's always ready for anything. It's open to everything in the beginner's mind  there are many possibilities, while in the expert's mind, there are few. 

That is just amazing.

Shunryu Suzuki's genius is the distilling of this information into these really cool paradoxical. yet profound statements. 

Yeah, exactly. That's, what's so fun about Zen is they really lean into the paradox, and we certainly live in a society that venerates the expert, it's all about your education level, your income level, your experience level.

It's like comparing yourself to the Joneses. 

Yeah. Success is measured by outward appearances status expert status mm-hmm wealth status, socioeconomic status, all of that, right? 

 Yeah. So it's nice to reimagine all of that and to see it through a fresh perspective.

And of course, in the horse world, man, we see this a lot. There's just a lot of, I think, insecurity in the horse world because it is a world full of status, the horse world requires a certain level of resources to even have horses and to be able to trailer them around and compete and all that stuff 

that looks like time, money, access, privilege.

Mm-hmm yeah, 

there's a lot of privilege in the horse world. Then on top of that, we've got you know, a thousand plus pound animal that. Communicates on a different level than humans do. And there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation and confusion out there as to how to tap into that communication.

So if you don't really know what's going on you get nervous and anxiety. And if you're trying to maintain that high level of status and that feed your ego type vibe, you're not gonna wanna show people that you really don't know. What to do 

exactly Suzuki's quote, is really all about mindfulness, right?

Being aware and present in the moment. And we talk about mindfulness a lot as a tool to really communicating with your horse and having a better relationship with your horse. Mm-hmm 

yeah. I have a feeling. Suzuki would've gotten along really well with 

horses. Yeah. That would actually be some interesting research.

Yeah. To see if maybe there were horses in his world the idea of mindfulness as a concept. It's great. , staying in the moment , and staying, energetically present and all of that is helpful, but I think it's noteworthy that mindfulness also actually regulates our nervous system.

. And when our nervous system is regulated, we stay calm. We say relaxed. Our body is free of tension. Okay. When our body is free of tension, we are much better at handling our horses. We are much better at riding our horses. Mm-hmm this stuff works. Philosophically it works psychologically, but it also works physiologically.

Ooh, I love that. Yeah. It's the holistic 

model, right? Mm-hmm right. There you go. Mm-hmm so trailer loading is a great example of. where mindfulness tends to leave the building 

Zen and the art of trailer loading. 

 This is on my mind a lot right now because I like to write that book. I know

Yeah, because so many students that we work with so many folks, we encounter that aren't our students have issues with trailer loading with hauling. 

Pretty much everybody. It seems 

mm-hmm and it's rightfully so. I mean, if you think about what we're doing, we're asking a, thousand pound prey animal to get into a metal box, 

yeah.

With no way 

out. Right. And be all relaxed and cool about it. Right. And then we, get 'em in the box. We close the doors. So they're like in darkness mm-hmm in a predator cave, so to speak. I mean, it goes against, I think, everything, their intuition probably horse's intuition probably tells them is how things should be going.

Mm-hmm . 

I would say we take it for granted. A lot of times mm-hmm that a horse will get in the trailer. We just think of trailer loading and hauling our horse as something that has to be done to do the other thing that we wanna do get to the horse show, get to our lesson. get to the veterinarian office.

so just a means 

to an end. 

Right. And instead of thinking of it more of like, whoa, this is a Marvel 

it really is. Yeah. 

Right. Yeah. And that's a beginner's mind reframe right there. 

That's a reframe just witnessing that something is really unique and marvelous and just being curious. 

 Trailer loading, for example, just to kind of keep riffing on trailer loading as an example, I think it's a, like a top 10. Issue for people with their horses. Yeah. Easily. Maybe top five, maybe 

 What's so interesting about it is I run across a lot of students who have not had issues with it for a long time for years with a horse. Okay. And all of a sudden, one day a horse that's jumped into the trailer with no issues. 600 times and regularly one day says no, and it's 

kind of a straw that broke the camel's back like scenario.

Yeah. Right. So it's not necessarily a beginner's problem. And so I think that's. Worth looking at because we tend to just, again, that taking for granted that being unaware of how our horse is thinking and feeling and how we are asking our horse to do this thing, getting in the trailer.

Can lead to all of a sudden one day we're like he won't get in the trailer. Just all of a sudden chances are, that's not the case. Chances are the horse has been telling you for weeks and weeks and weeks, many loading sessions. I would not like to get in this trailer now, please. And we ignored it.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Which is another reason the art of mindfulness is so powerful with horses because you enables you to stay curious and have that fresh beginner's mind. So you naturally just will see things that you didn't really see before. And that's a big principle in horse training is that so many things are happening that we're just not seeing like the horse doesn't usually just do something out of the blue.

There's usually a million micro clues leading up to. . 

Yes, exactly. don't mind me. I've gotta fly attacking me. Okay. That's what, when you do a podcast in thet room, that's what happens? Yeah. It's it's summer mm-hmm so, Yeah, just more on that. I think you're totally right on. And, and I think it's the preconceived notions that we have about what needs to happen.

Yeah. Creates this, this scenario where we lose our ability to see the situation from the horse's perspective. 

 As people who help other people with horses, it's incredible hearing the stories. I mean, they'll have a very long detailed story about why the horse is doing what they're doing.

And it's really often clear within the first half a sentence that it probably has nothing to do with what's actually going 

on. Exactly. Because often the story is all from the human's perspective. Yeah. And re and, and it's way 

more complicated than what's really happening. 

yeah. And that, but that's the good news.

It's good that it's not complicated. 

We're all about removing. from your horse life. Mm-hmm simplifying things. Yeah. Mm-hmm so we're simple people. We like things simple, 

very simple.

Life is hard enough. We don't need to add, add to it. Mm-hmm with all these old stories and judgments about. What's going on. and that's where we can really learn from our horse. 

Yeah. This is all part of beginner's mind. 

And so the reframe, if you wanted to have a beginner's mind when your horse doesn't load, it's like, , whoa. The horse is gonna get in the trailer. That's amazing. Yeah, totally. 

 Actually a friend of ours on the east coast, we were just talking to, she's not, she's a city person, but cuz she knows us. She kind of thinks about horses now. And she was at a gas station and she saw a lady with a horse trailer and she was just shocked.

She was like, I couldn't believe it. This girl was like driving these horses down the road. They were kind of sticking their nose out the window and, they were just in this trailer. Like, I can't believe you guys just drive these horses down the road in a trailer. It was so 

great. That was a perfect example.

Perfect example. And it is pretty weird when you think 

about it. Right. And so having that sort of amazement around it and that sort of wonderment, it creates a level of curiosity, creates a level of reverence for the situation that changes the. . 

And because it's partly physiological, just that alone will help your horse stay more relaxed because your physiology kicks down a notch.

 Moving along to the horse trailer loading. Incident that's happening. The horse doesn't wanna get in the trailer. Recently seeing this happen at other, Barnes that we train at. There was a horse not getting in the trailer and he was called all sorts of names by the people trying to get him in the trailer.

That's rude. Right? He was, he was like, he was called all sorts of things and. You know, the beginner's mind reframe would be what is the horse's body language and facial expressions and energy telling me right now, right. About how to help him get in the trailer. Instead of being. Pissed off at the horse and creating more attention and more energy around the fact that he's not getting in the trailer, taking a step back again, evoking that curiosity investigating what's going on, trying to gather data based on what the horse is saying.

is gonna be far more effective than using expletives and, you know, Whacking on the horse. 

Yeah. That will not help. And yeah, beginner's mind is like a fertile ground for empathy, which helps you be curious, look around and you might just see what's going on. And then they can very quickly and effortlessly pinpoint it and fix it.

A lot of great trainers. People just think they're magical and it's really just cuz they happen to see. The one detail that's actually happening. And then they're able to execute their timing at just the right moment because they saw exactly the thing that needed to be seen. it really is as simple as that 

Yeah, a lot of times when I go to help somebody, especially somebody that I maybe don't know their horse well, I can pick up on it really quick. more so than like maybe my own horses at home that I've been working on stuff with. Cuz I'm just like, so in it with them. So you, 

you notice a more beginner's mind cuz you don't know the horse mm-hmm 

yeah.

Mm-hmm which interesting. Which intern is actually makes me seem like I'm more effective. Wow. which it's just beginner's mind. Nice 

secret. Most trainers 

probably wouldn't admit that I it's. Right, exactly. It it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. The horse trailer and loading my horse in the trailer is actually an opportunity to really build my relationship with my horse. Like I think of corporate workshops in which they're building teams and they've got those trustful exercises, right? To me, the fact that. A horse will get into a horse trailer at a human's directive is the equivalence of a trust fall.

When you start looking at like that, it's like, this is amazing. This is an opportunity to really get some stuff cemented in my relationship with my horse that will serve me in sticky situations down the. Yeah, 

that's a great example. And imagine if somebody is like genuinely terrified to do the thing and everybody's like, oh my God, what a jerk?

I can't believe he is doing that. Somebody grab a rope and a whip. 

 It's like the stuff we put our horses through is kind of funny. Maybe not funny. Haha. 

 It's just backwards. It's com it's like 180 degrees wrong 

 The positive reframe on that is the right thing is actually so much easier. It takes very little effort. you just have to have a curious beginner's mind. 

Yeah. So how can I use the trailer loading experience to actually enhance my relationship with my horse? Mm-hmm that?

That's the question to be asking. So Zuki says whether you have a problem in your life or not depends on your own understanding. Oh yeah. I know it's like, that's kind of like ouch, 

 Maybe the problem isn't the horse's problem. 

Yeah.

And so reframing the issue, readjusting your attitude might just even dissolved the problem, Like it's not a problem. It's actually like an opportunity. To build this relationship. It's an opportunity to get to know each other more. Mm-hmm, , it's an opportunity to become a better horse trainer, a better horse person.

 That takes going deeper. 

It does it. You can't just like wanna get the horse in the trailer, right? Yeah. Which is what a, you know, what a lot of people end up just sticking with,

but you can't start the reframing the morning. Of your trailer loading experience, you can't just like 30 minutes before you gotta be to your vet appointment or your lesson. Decide that you're gonna change how you do it. Practicing daily making this part of just how you work with your horse in general is a more substantive way to approach it.

Okay. Right. Gonna be more effective. 

It's like Warwick Schuler's quote. Get the tool before you need the tool. Yeah. Build 

the tool or build the tool before you, you need the tool, build the 

quote. Right. And I don't have a cool Australian accent

 If you Are gonna go out and go have big beginner's mind and you go to get your horse in the trailer.

And the horse says no, and maybe the horse does something a little, fractious or a little scary. And your nervous system gets activated. All of a sudden. Now you're in sort of that. Activated nervous system situation in which your horse is gonna respond to. It's a negative feedback loop.

Exactly. Right. So practicing ahead of time. So you've got a little bit of a foundation, so you can keep your nervous system regulated when your horse says no. When things don't go perfectly is gonna. Helpful. 

Just remembered another saying you need the map before you go into the 

woods.

That's a good one. That's basically yeah. The tool before you 

need a tool. Remember you can apply same principal as the beginner's mind onto yourself. It's a form of self-compassion. If you show up and you're like, okay, I meditated this morning. I did my breath work. I'm not in a hurry.

And your horse is still not getting in the trailer. And you're like, okay, these guys told me to have beginner's mind to stay curious and to regulate everything, but it's not working. And then you start getting worked up, you know, you feel you're sweat forming and , people are maybe watching or getting embarrassed, all the stuff that happens.

Look at yourself. Look at your own reactions through the beginner's mind. Just be curious, be like, huh? I wonder why I'm. nervous right now. Why am I so disappointed? Why am I freaked out right now? Just ask yourself the question sometimes. Just asking mm-hmm 

helps and ask in a tone like how you would ask a friend, like, mm, yeah, that's good.

You know, why am I feeling like this? Maybe I should take a step back and take a breath. Maybe I should get a drink of water. Yeah. Maybe I should stop for a second. Reset. I mean, those are all things that a good friend would say to you if they would. Yeah. What would you do for your own friend, right? Yeah.

If they saw you struggling Do it for yourself. And then, you know, doing this in the moment, for the first time, if you have a time constraint, just that time constraint, just the pressure of like being late mm-hmm is gonna add to the issue whether you want it to or not.

Yeah. No matter how hard you try. Tough. 

Yeah. You want, wanna really try to get there an hour early? 

 Yeah. It's one of my pet peeves when students show up late and all freaked out about it, it's fine to show up late, but like just embrace showing up late. Right? Like we're not gonna just radically accept that.

exactly. It's helpful. Cuz otherwise it's stressful for your horse, stressful for you. And I think it ultimately takes more time to kind of get into the meat of the lesson. Because we're all activated at that. 

Yeah. And then arguably, you may never get to the meat of the lesson. Even if you do your whole lesson, it's kind of like if you're practicing something, but you practice wrong, it would be better not to practice at all.

Mm-hmm cause then you have to unlearn the thing you learned mm-hmm and if you're working with your horse in an activated state, you're probably teaching them the wrong thing. Mm-hmm 

or come to that with the mindset, like, I'm activated. I'm late. I'm a little freaked out mm-hmm and let go of the expectations for the outcome of that lesson and just meet yourself, your trainer, your instructor, your horse, where you're at in that moment and see where you can get to from that place.

But I have to lope and I have to work. Am I flying? Lead changes this lesson? 

Exactly. I'm paying for this. I got a show in two weeks. I don't have my lead change down. Not gonna work 

out. Yeah. I mean, imagine if you got there and instead just said, Hey, I'm late and kind of activated. I'm just gonna spend pretty much the whole time, just grooming and trying to like, see if I can get calmed down mm-hmm and then maybe we could just do a little groundwork, cause I just don't think I should get in the saddle I don't want to feel rushed. That's powerful. That 

would be pretty cool. Yeah, that would be very, very cool. I would be impressed. 

 

So another cool Suzuki saying, 

okay, I love this. I'm always just quoting his simple, in the beginner's mind or many possibilities in the expert mind few, because that's all I can remember.

But now we're getting to see like the context on all of Suzuki's teachings, which is really cool. 

Oh, I mean, it's so fun to read this stuff. I highly recommend it. Just like it's a rabbit. Yeah. 

Yeah. Everybody should get his book. 

Your mind? Just mind blown mind, blown mind, blown mind blown.

Every you're like what? Every paragraph. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Here's a quote about how to work with others. I'm gonna need to read it. Mm-hmm to give your sheep or cow a large spacious meadow is the way to control. So it is with people first, let them do what they want and watch them.

This is the best policy they see to ignore them is not good. This is the worst policy. The second worst is trying to control them. The best one is to watch them, just to watch them without trying to control them. 

I was just thinking about how that relates to parenting. Who aye. Yay. Yay. 

Yeah, that's a whole nother podcast.

Yeah, I 

can't go there. I'm like, I'm getting, I'm getting, I need to like meditate. I'm getting anxious. Just thinking 

about that. Working with our horses has a lot of parenting parallels. It sure does. yeah, mm-hmm but Tom Dorrance has a. Where he says, first we go with the horse. Ah, yes. Then the horse goes with us.

Then we go together. I love that. And I think that ties into this, passage from Suzuki's work. because again, it's like first you just have to notice what the horse is doing. Mm-hmm you have to just go with the horse, be willing to be with the horse. Mm-hmm 

That's the equivalent of Suzuki's passage of giving them a large spacious meadow and just watching them. 

And then they go with you, 

then they will probably be attracted ally attracted. Exactly. And they go, and then you guys, you have like the mind meld and you go together. 

Exactly. I mean, if you very cool. If you have a horse that you can't catch the best way to catch them is just to go out in the pen and just hang out and not like you wanna catch 'em just go, wanna be with them.

Mm-hmm and observe 

them. Yeah, they can't help it, their curiosity that will want to come see what the heck you're all about. All of a sudden 

the horse comes to you and goes with you. Yep. And then all of a sudden you're going together. Mm-hmm I just love that our, our cowboy wisdom lines up with some of this Eastern philosophy too.

It's pretty cool. Yeah. And it really does. And I think Like the horses themselves. how they have a heart coherence or heart rate variability level. It's on par with like really. Deep meditators like Tibetan monks. They've actually done research on that. So, Tom Doran, I think he really organically just was a student of the horse.

He learned from the horse and here he is basically saying the exact same thing as a Japanese Zen master mm-hmm , because those lessons are just universal. So it's a great example. 

Yeah. It's it's cool stuff. And so perception wise, there's. A disconnect though, I think between being a beginner and being good with horses.

Especially just within H the horse community. Oh, okay. Like perception. Yeah. There's, there's a stigma attached to being a beginner. 

Oh, okay. It goes back to the status, 

right? It's the ego mm-hmm and it's like, you don't wanna be. characterize as a beginner for some like, it's like, mm-hmm, not okay to be a beginner in the horse world.

Yep. I feel 

like, yeah, it's true. Yeah. I felt that obviously in the horse world, I felt it in other places in my life too. And it's kinda like when you really want something bad, and you have gotten into it. So maybe you're not. A true beginner in the sense of you've been doing it for a while.

You really wanna be perceived as knowing what you're doing, cuz you that's your goal. You want to be good. So then you want to be perceived as good. So it's really hard when you're struggling we see that so much. In many different levels where we can't really help people then because you're shut down the new information.

You're not willing to step back. You're not willing to forfeit working on sliding stops cuz you're late to your lesson because you might just need to do groundwork the whole time. 

that's so true. Like we had a client who. was talking about how great our journey program would be for beginners, not for her.

Oh, right, right. Be yet she can't get her horse in the trailer. It's like, I think we need to go back to some basics there. And when did becoming a beginner? Be the only time when you need to work on basics yeah. Or seek, more extensive knowledge. 

 I have a confession. I took me forever to learn how to do slip knots and we used to run a kids 

program. right. 

So I was embarrassed to admit that I would get my slip knots backwards and usually I could figure it out if I did it a few times, it's just like a dyslexia thing.

But I didn't want the kids to see that. I wasn't getting it perfect every time. Cause I was supposed to be the adult leader. Mm-hmm so I had a little trick where I would be. who wants to show off their slip knot tying skills and I would watch them do it. and that's. And it was because I was embarrassed to admit that I didn't know something right.

Which is essentially non embracing beginner's mind. there was another student In the journey who was a beginner. And I thought it was just awesome. they asked the best questions. Mm-hmm , I guarantee there are other people who had been writing 20 or 30 years in the program.

I guarantee that they were learning from those questions. yes, I 

was learning from those questions. I was learning from those questions, 

just having to see it and think about it. having newcomers really valuable because they bring so much to each journey. Mm-hmm so I'm, always hoping there's somebody new that's gonna join 

mm-hmm exactly.

it, takes a lot of skill to work with horses and that can be learned. But at the end of the day mindset is the most important thing. Yeah. A hundred percent. 

So, well, and there's so many little things that you forget that you ever even learned and. There's so many things. We see it with tacking up.

We see it with halting obviously trailer loading. I mean, basically every step of the horsemanship journey, there could be somebody who's quite skilled and doesn't really have a lot of problems, but they're not putting the halter on in the most ideal way, or they're not cinching their saddle correctly, you know?

Little things 

mm-hmm and those are missed opportunities for connection. And even if they're not having problems or like scary issues, or hangups because of. These moments that are missed, they're missing out on sort of the next level mm-hmm 

right. Yeah. And if they're being like me with a Slipknot, they're probably kind of embarrassed to admit like, Hey, could you show me this?

I never really quite learned this. Right. Mm-hmm or I notice you do this differently. You know, what's up with that. Mm-hmm can you teach me 

mm-hmm so, yeah, totally. I think it was a body work client who said, they were having issues with turning right on the second barrel.

The horse kept dropping the shoulder. Right. And You worked on the horse and really didn't find any physical issues for that. No, so much. It, it was more like foundational structural issues that really signaled that the horse needed to do some more gymnastics level work. Mm-hmm, kind of some basic dressage to build up their core strength mm-hmm and work on collection.

as we gently made those recommendations mm-hmm it was like a quick, like I already work on basics once a week. 

I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. This young lady shut it down. I mean, we were, we had some. Pretty powerful exercises. Mm-hmm that would've literally fixed her problem. It really would've dedicated to 

it.

Yeah. She would've started winning rather than being middle of the pack in her, 

times. Yeah. But she viewed it as kind of a digression, I think, from the level she had associated with herself being at, cuz we were saying, I guess on the surface it does seem real basic, but it really isn't, you know, the real marrow.

The art is in the basic stuff. So 

those basics, when done, in a beginner's mindset with a, level of, mindfulness Can be spectacularly beautiful and profound. Yeah. 

 You can get lost in time. Everything feels connected and peaceful. we had an opportunity to see Dominique Barbie air at his home facility.

who's a great French classical dressage rider. I was known for his extremely enlightened horsemanship. And he's the mystery. He's the mystery. we bow at his feet, you know, he is very, very good and very wonderful human being too. We learned after visiting mm-hmm , but they rarely take their horses out of a walk.

their groundwork is the essence of what they do. So yeah, 

but they can, they execute high school level movements with their horses. So it's not that they're not attaining these high level advanced horsemanship ideals. They are The way they approach them the way they achieve them is through refining the foundational basics.

Exactly. Which is so 

cool. And I think when you do that, when you enter that state of beginner's mind, it's almost like the floor drops out from underneath you. It's like there becomes a limitless depth to even the most simple thing to. It's kind of almost like a kaleidoscope too, maybe where it's just like, you're looking at the thing, but because you have this fresh perspective and beginner's mind and because there's so many variables to any moment, you know, you never know what's, every moment is variable.

The exercise might be the same and theory, but the variables are all different. So that kaleidoscope is always shifting. But of course you have to be open to that, and you would think this kind of famous trainer with imported Luciano, stallions, and a high pedigree of achievement in his life.

Would just be out doing the most advanced stuff to show off all the time, especially when he has an audience. But no, it was just like the most beautiful, but it was elegant to watch. It was like watching a dance and, we just thought it was amazing. 

Yeah. What I noticed is you could see the horses.

Personalities, you could see their souls, you could see the connection in the writing that was elevated. It was a whole nother level. Yeah. Which, was really inspiring. Just one more story about a client and this kind of goes back to the, the ego stuff. How it can sort of negatively affect you when you maybe add shame to it.

Like you were talking about the not wanting to let the kids know you were. You were a little fuzzy on the knots which, , if you have mostly used cross ties and you haven't done a lot of tying your horses, people don't even do that very often we had. A student who got a new horse fabulous horse, fabulous student. And I came to see her after it had been a, a week or so after getting her new horse and we were gonna do a lesson and she was just like apologizing up and down about, she hadn't even gotten out of the walk with her horse yet.

She'd been just hadn't even trotted. And she should be loing by now. but she just wanted to work on her balance and make sure everything got started off on the right foot. But she knows she should have been doing more. And I just stopped her right there and I was so. happy and thankful that she had stayed in the walk she had worked on her balance.

she had worked on cementing, the more relationship pieces that were so important to get things started off, right. With her new horse. Mm-hmm the bummer was that she was beating herself up about it. 

Exactly. Yeah. She was doing the right thing, but because of this kind of stigmatization of beginner, VI.

she felt like she should be doing more and she was capable of doing more mm-hmm but she just actually, I think was a knowing it was good to take time. but in front of her teacher, she felt like she needed to apologize for that. Mm-hmm just shows the power of societal conditioning to be the.

 Yeah. Mm-hmm yeah. To be pushing yourself is another one. Yeah. Always pushing, pushing. Yeah. 

It's just striving, achievement 

hustle, you know? does not work well with horses. It does 

not. Mm-hmm no. Yeah. They're operating on a different level. Yeah.

 I think one of the secrets that embracing beginner's mind is that it really allows you to see and hear your horse for some people for the first time. 

It's can be illuminating. It can be a little painful and surprising mm-hmm 

You have to have self-compassion on yourself. Like if you realize you've been doing something wrong, mm-hmm , don't beat yourself up.

It's just about how. Forward. 

Exactly. That's that nonjudgmental acceptance. That's you know, mindfulness is about being in the moment, but it's also about accepting the moment without attaching our stuff to it. 

Yeah. That's why we focus on this because horses model the behavior. They're actually our greatest teachers in this, even if you were doing things wrong with your horse, Before they will move forward with you.

however you choose to meet them, they're not gonna hold a grudge. In other words, horses don't hold grudges and they're not judgemental. So that's probably one of the reasons we like being around them so much. 

Exactly, they mirror us they can mirror our stuff that we don't really like to see.

But on the flip side, they also mirror the stuff that we, Are wanting to get to when we're getting there. Mm-hmm and that can be really awesome. And so, yeah, that's 

a really powerful point. Like that's the thing is they give us real time feedback. On these deep mindfulness principles. Like you're either you're either there or you're not, and you'll get the feedback directly from your horse.

 They're just like us. They like to be seen and they like to be heard and they recognize as soon as you see that. They recognize it. And then suddenly you're connected. Mm-hmm 

and that's how you build a relationship with horses. And at the end of the day, the crux of it all is we're trying to build a relationship with our horse so that we can build a partnership so that we can, dance together, whatever metaphor you like to use.

But writing really should be. A partnership and you can't build a partnership. If you haven't built a relationship and you can't build a relationship, if you haven't learned how to communicate and you can't communicate, if you haven't learned how to listen and listening with horses means observ.

Wow. And here we are life. Yeah, that's pretty good. So that's what we're after. And that's what we're 

talking about. In beginner's mind is the answer. 

It allows us to observe, it allows us to see things from a fresh perspective. And that's what it's about. 

Yeah. And it's great. Cause it takes all the pressure off of you and it takes the pressure off of your horse.

that's how we release tension. That's how we stay soft, relaxed, and That's what it's all 

about. Releasing tension, connecting, building relationship. 

Yeah. That's it. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate you being here with us today and until next time, 

may the horse be with you?

Bye byebye.