bodywork podcast
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Josh: [00:00:00] And it wasn't just that I was feeling it like. I'm doing this to the horse. It was more like I was feeling it through my whole body.
Like I just felt like I was in a trance myself. And to be honest, I didn't really want to admit or even focus on that. Cuz to me it was like, I was still trying to get away from the energy woo woo stuff and make it more sciencey. So I wanted to pretend like, uh, wasn't really happening and then be like, oh, I need to analyze what's happening anatomically here or think.
You know what biomechanics are contributing to this movement pattern and So I was actually hiding behind that, but in reality, it really was feeling this incredible mm-hmm energy exchange that I didn't understand at the time.
Victoria: Right, that the horses basically said ready or not. Here's all this information they
Josh: did.
Yeah, they did. And it's taken another 10 years to really wrap my head around that and to come around to it. And it's really only been in the last year that I've really fully accepted and embraced the lessons that those horses were [00:01:00] teaching me. Mm-hmm back then.
Welcome to the herd is calling podcast. This is where we break free from conventional norms to explore the art, science, and wonder of the horse human connection. I'm Josh Williams. And together with my wife, Victoria, we're your hosts. Our mission is to inspire. you to improve the lives of horses.
Subscribe to The Herd is calling on Substack for behind the scenes stories and unique content. Now let's get to the episode.
Introduction to Equine Body Work
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Victoria: Welcome to the herd is calling podcast. We're so happy to have you because today. We're talking about
Josh: equine body work. Yay. This is like basically my favorite subject. I love this topic. I've obsessed owned body work for over 20 years now.
[00:02:00] He's obsessed. I'm totally obsessed. It's hard to find good information. Sometimes. I just want to tell people, like, just gimme the goods. Just tell me what's up. Cut to the chase. Cut to the chase. Tell me the works.
I'm just gonna lay it all out for you so you can just have it today. And the best part is, you can put it to work right away in your horsemanship practice.
Victoria: So that sounds really useful, like very helpful and,
Josh: actionable. I hope so as I wish somebody would've just told me this, a long time ago,
.
The Zen Mindset in Horsemanship
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Josh: So the book called Zen mind.
Beginner's mind by Shinro Suzuki. A quote outta that book is one of primary manifesto items for my horse journey. Mm-hmm so in the book, the quote goes in the beginner's mind.
There are many possibilities and in the expert's mind, there are few mm-hmm . I love that. Yeah. We think that's a really powerful parable for working with horses.
Victoria: Yeah. We meet potential students who spend a lot of time letting us know how [00:03:00] much they know and how.
Experience, they have mm-hmm um, what we really like to do is strip that away and just like, look at it fresh. So, yeah.
Josh: Yeah, exactly. And I think every subject is like that mm-hmm we're all, you know, kind of trained to.
Brag about things we've done and things we've accomplished. Mm-hmm . But if you think about it from the perspective of Zen teachings, that actually takes you further away from the truth.
Journey into Massage and Kinesiology
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Josh: That's probably what led me to go to massage school. That was like around the year, 2000 in Hawaii.
I thought the way was getting more into the science side of things, like really understanding anatomy and biomechanics and the names of muscles and learning all kinds of. Techniques and, and methods of which there are many. So I just drilled down a technique. I was like, I'm not gonna be one of these energy. Woo boo guys. I'm just gonna be like the technician, and I thought it'd be cool to work on athletes and get more into that sphere.
Victoria: Your interest in the [00:04:00] scientific aspect of body work led you to go back to school and get your degree in kinesiology. Is that right?
Josh: I thought it would be really cool just to dive even deeper into that. I went back to school, started learning all that kind of stuff. It was actually a great opportunity cuz the lady, uh, that was leading the program came straight from USC where she'd run a big biomechanics lab there and had, done a lot of research on knee injuries
and she even opened the motion sciences lab in band, Oregon. and I got to be one of the first apprentices there, so, oh, wow. Some of the things I learned there about how ground reaction forces and force vectors and some of the more technical stuff, we really apply to our understanding of equitation,
I started to realize the sciencey stuff was kind of boring.
Yeah.
Victoria: yeah.
Josh: Just data entry , it's kind of cool to nerd out on that stuff in conversation, but to do it eight hours a day, mm-hmm . every day. Little [00:05:00] numbing. Yeah. Mm-hmm yeah, it was totally numbing. I wasn't cognizant of this principle that we really believe in now in relation to paradox in. two things can be true at once. I really thought you either had to be all technician or all energy. I really wasn't seeing how you could blend the two. To me, it was kind of like oil and water.
Mm. Um, two sides of a spectrum. Mm-hmm and I didn't realize that you could pick your place in the spectrum. And that was a really free. Realization to know that you can pick your spot in there. Wow. And
Discovering Horse Massage
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Victoria: do you think that the horses precipitated that in some way, like cuz you started working on horses right about this time?
Yeah. Putting your hands on horses in a, a healing way's and. What happened?
Josh: yeah, that was a magical, magical time because not only did I get to meet the love of my life, it just so happened that she was a horse [00:06:00] trainer. So I got to be around horses for really the first time, there were horses around in my childhood, but it was kind of more of like a scary thing, this kind of macho, ranch culture.
And it really didn't appeal to me. I saw people getting hurt and there wasn't a lot of enlightened horsemanship going on around me. So I did always have a drive to be around horses. But the way it was being done, that I was exposed to had zero interest in. So it was really cool that Victoria was a horse trainer and that I got to go and hang out with horses.
She was working more in performance horse training. And she had a barn full of incredible horses. They were athletes. They were. being trained every day, they were just incredible horses. Mm-hmm it was a great introduction
I was loitering around the barn all the time. Cause I was just trying to get Victoria's attention and just kind of like wouldn't get out of her hair. Of course she was busy working, you know, she had to train these horses and had clients everywhere.
So I'd find myself just hanging out in the [00:07:00] halls and there would be some couple of training horses usually. Standing there and I just did what came natural to me. I would put my hands on 'em, and I'd had, over 15 years of massage experience at that point.
So I had a pretty sensitive touch and a lot of massages, just reading feedback from tissue. Mm. And that's true whether you're working on a horse or a human. I just really enjoyed it. It felt really good.
And I like to joke that I like working on horses cuz they don't even care if I take a shower before I work on. Because in human massage offices, you know.
You gotta
Victoria: be pretty, pretty cleaned up. Exactly. yeah. So no dirt under the fingernails. No,
Josh: no dirt with the fingernails. No, B
Victoria: . Totally. But the horses don't care. Nope.
Josh: They don't care about any of that. So it's really freeing there's, no judgment and it's just pure, tactile feedback.
And that was something I picked up on as a beginner is with the beginner's mind. That's so valuable. I didn't even realize that it's [00:08:00] happening as is the case when you're in a state, a beginner's mind, that what I was. Appreciating there was, it was just a pure, honest feedback, with people, myself included, a lot of our body tension is due to mental stuff going on and we store tension in our body as a result of that. With horses, it just felt really direct there was no real question about what was happening and I really love that.
Victoria: Yeah. Horses don't lie. Yeah. Horses don't lie.
Josh: At the time, I had no idea that people did massage on horses. I was just biting my time while loitering in the halls, waiting for Victoria to be done training Then she told me that, oh yeah, there's actually horse massage therapists. The horses get acupuncture, they get chiropractic, they get laser therapy treatment. Mm-hmm they have special ice wraps for their legs. All the stuff that you would see in a performance human lab is being used on horses.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm so that just totally blew my mind. And I thought, oh my God, this is fantastic.
The Ultimate Equine Athletes
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Josh: You could actually work [00:09:00] on horse athletes..
Victoria: Talk about nerding out, cuz they courses are the ultimate athlete, right?
Josh: They're the ultimate athlete. Yeah. We did some quick math. found out that the fastest horse, don't quote me on this. It's in one of. Presentations mm-hmm but I think it was something like four times as fast as you St. Bolt who was the fastest human on earth , and the horse maintains it for like two miles. Whereas of course, humans it's done in a hundred meter sprint, so they go 32 times farther and four times faster.
Mm-hmm and then I thought, well, let's look at the other spectrum, just thinking about performance again. So you have speed on one side and then you have endurance on the other side. And the top endurance horses at the time, , Arabian race horses were maintaining an insane bolt level sprint speed over the course of 20 hours.
Victoria: Well, that's right. I remember when you were, finding all this stuff
Josh: and yeah, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. It was like courses are the ultimate athlete. Horses also have more muscle [00:10:00] mass per body weight than any other mammal on earth.
So they really are just muscular mm-hmm specimens. And then if they have this incredible cardiovascular system, to fuel those muscles. Right. One of the only animals that has a higher level of endurance in horses or antelope, right? Yeah.
Victoria: And
Josh: just barely right. Just barely. Yeah. Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah, just barely.
The top humans are actually cross country ski racers,
Victoria: So you're getting your mind blown by. Horses as athletes and that's when you were like, Hey.
Create this program.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Well, truly I was just trying to impress Victoria, but well,
Victoria: I was impressed. I remember coming out of the arena one day in the indoor arena and coming through the alley and you were standing there with a horse that was tied, the horse was licking and chewing and yawning and releasing all this tension and soft eyes and just like, you know, half asleep, but super blissed [00:11:00] out.
And I was like, what are you doing? Like, this is really good. Like, like we should do this, I think. Yeah. And that was maybe the beginning of
Josh: it was, yeah, that, that actually blew my mind because I had no idea that licking and chewing and sticking the tongue out or rolling eyes, or even how like tension is seen on a horse's face.
I didn't know all of that. So I actually thought they were even kind of a little restless cause they're like moving their face, you know? And if you're working on a person and they're moving around on the table, you kind of think, oh, something's wrong here. They're not totally relaxed. Mm-hmm I actually had no idea.
that, that was horse language for relaxation responses, but you
Victoria: were reading it in,, their tissue, right. Were feeling that, so that, that's why you kind of kept going. Okay.
Josh: And it wasn't just that I was feeling it like. I'm doing this to the horse. It was more like I was feeling it through my whole body.
Like I just felt like I was in a trance myself. And to be honest, I didn't really want to admit or even focus on that. Cuz to me [00:12:00] it was like, I was still trying to get away from the energy woo woo stuff and make it more sciencey. So I wanted to pretend like, uh, wasn't really happening and then be like, oh, I need to analyze what's happening anatomically here or think.
You know what biomechanics are contributing to this movement pattern and So I was actually hiding behind that, but in reality, it really was feeling this incredible mm-hmm energy exchange that I didn't understand at the time.
Victoria: Right, that the horses basically said ready or not. Here's all this information they
Josh: did.
Yeah, they did. And it's taken another 10 years to really wrap my head around that and to come around to it. And it's really only been in the last year that I've really fully accepted and embraced the lessons that those horses were teaching me. Mm-hmm back then.
So we actually developed a body work system and started working on a lot of horses. We had some vets that were in love with us and sent us horses all the time. Mm-hmm and mm-hmm , we had a whole thing going there for a number of years and we worked on a number of horses [00:13:00] every week. And, so many times people would tell me, oh, if only they could tell us what's wrong.
If only they could just. start talking to us, Mr. Ed style. Mm-hmm and tell us what's wrong. Tell us where it hurts. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm
It really does become like an investigative process to try to say, Hmm, I wonder if their hip is sore. I wonder if it's their shoulder, maybe it's something in their neck, you know, . You're trying to figure that out. And that's part of the fun on the more sciencey analytical side is trying to figure that out.
I understand why people said that. I mean, it makes perfect sense.
Understanding Horse Communication
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Josh: Mm-hmm and horses don't speak humans, so , so I get it, I push back on that theory now, because what we've discovered is that horses speak and communi. in a very clear way and much more profoundly and directly and honestly than people do.
Absolutely.
Victoria: Yeah. And in that way, they're extremely articulate,
Josh: extremely articulate. And if you're listening and if you know the clues to watch [00:14:00] for there's no mistaking what's going on, cuz they are telling. just by their very presence.
So many people, really admire Victoria's ability to interpret what horses are saying, it's just awesome when you're taking a lesson or riding for her to just be like, okay, yeah, this horse is thinking this or this horse is doing that or do this. And it always works. Cuz you're able to interpret horse language for people, which is really powerful.
And of course, you know, there's the. Saying of like a horse whisperer. And that's another thing that we, completely push back against. There's no whispering to horses at all. It's actually, an observation and it's a, it's a witnessing and a listening.
Victoria: Yeah, it's a it's horse listening. We like to say yeah. Horse listening. You're right. It's, it's about noticing it's about observing. Yeah. And then they have tons to tell us they're saying a lot.
Josh: Yeah, exactly. , how do you listen and understand to a horse? And there are some really practical things. So they communicate in a number of different ways and that would take [00:15:00] hours to nerd out on. That's why we spend a whole week on it in the journey process. But if you could really sum it up in just like a sentence, I would say they communicate non-verbally they communicate through their body mm-hmm and they communicate with energy.
and they, particularly, if you're talking about the body, there are many different layers to that that we really explore when we're talking about body work, but a lot of it comes down to facial expressions. It
Victoria: does. Yeah. Yes. And that's something that, Is so cool. Cuz I think a lot of horses in sort of the way we use them these days, most of us, tend to get a little numb and we don't see what they're thinking and feeling as much in their facial expressions.
Mm-hmm one of the things that you do so beautifully in your body work is root that out. Peel away those layers that have created some numb. And all of a sudden we see the horses, true personality coming through their facial expressions. Right.
Exploring the Layers of Body Work
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Victoria: And that's always like so beautiful [00:16:00] and just mind
Josh: boggling.
Yeah. It really is beautiful. And it is like peeling back an onion. Mm-hmm a lot of body work and somatic things. I really like that. Mm-hmm because there's layers and layers upon layers.
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Victoria: so communication with energy, body language, facial expressions. What's [00:17:00] next.
Josh: Yeah.
Diving into Energetic Connections
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Josh: So I want to dive a little more into the energetic part because now I'm all about the energy mm-hmm I still think science is important.
I think it's really cool to know principles of biomechanics. I don't think it does any good to try to blow people away with big words. Right, right. That used to just be something I thought. Showed that you were smart as if you could use big words, absolutely tools the better, but I think it's better to really think about energy right now.
Understanding Heart Coherence
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Josh: So one aspect of that, and there are many, but the one I wanna focus on today that really applies to body work and something that you can think about with your horses immediately is this thing called heart coherence. Mm.
Victoria: This stuff blows my mind. Yeah. This is the stuff that I can barely wrap my head around, but I like so
Josh: cool.
It's so cool. And once you hear about it, it'll make perfect sense cuz it explains everything about horses it's actually one of these things that really is at the intersection of [00:18:00] science and energy, cuz they actually can measure it through something called heart rate variability. And in a really like dry sense, heart rate variability is just kind of a measurement of the space between your heartbeats and the rhythm that is and how it goes.
And something they have found is that if you. Trauma or have experienced something really hard or if you're stressed , or even in PTSD, , that has a lower level. And whereas if they were to say measure, like a really experienced meditator, like a Tibetan monk, they would have a really high level. And it just so happens that horses, heart rate variability is at the very top level , higher than these Tibetan monk meditators,
Victoria: whoa, that just blows my mind. That is so cool. , like, okay. Horses really are the originals and masters, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Josh: They really are like, it's been proven. Okay. Science. Yeah, science mm-hmm there's some [00:19:00] other really fun things.
Comparing Horses and Humans
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Josh: Like their heart is something like five times as big as ours hearts have neurons, just like our brains, the same exact cells. They have neurons all over in your heart. So that's something they've been working on more and more and more like when we learned about this stuff, say in a physiology class, they really separate systems in the body.
So like, your heart is part of your circulatory system. Your brain is part of your nervous system and your stomach's part of your digestive system. but the stomach also has a ton of neurons. Mm-hmm like lots and lots and lots, almost as many as the brain mm-hmm . So we really have these neurons in our gut and our heart and in our brain.
So if you think about a horse, their heart is five times as big as ours and their guts. I don't even have the statistic on how many more guts they have than us a horses are all guts. Mm-hmm
And if you've heard the expression, I mean, have a gut feeling about something mm-hmm \ the scientists that are studying this say we have like a second brain in our gut. So, so horses have that in a [00:20:00] really high level. Um, the other thing, just so we're on the subject of comparing horses and humans is , we have this frontal cortex in our brain sort of make humans so unique. Mm-hmm it makes us able to think about things and design things and invent things and come up with tools and airplanes and all the crazy stuff that us humans do. Mm-hmm whereas horses have like very small, virtually non-existent frontal lobe, but they have a really developed motor cortex. Whereas our motor cortex is very small, so that's why they kind of fit together like a puzzle piece. And I think that's part of the reason why horses like to partner with humans. And mainly because.
We've used our frontal lobe to learn how to grow and harvest hay.
Victoria: Right. right,
Josh: right. Yeah. And we benefit from partnering with horses just on a real kind of physical level, just by the power of their bodies. You know, the [00:21:00] civilization was built. With horses. Yeah. So, yeah, so it's been a real partnership over time.
If you take that a level deeper, we get into this heart coherence stuff, thinking about the neurons and the guts, you know, it starts to get really, really energetic, really fast
The Paradox of Science and Energy
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Victoria: but that's where the knowledge about the body, your anatomy and physiology knowledge, your biomechanic that's where it, it comes into play beautifully.
Like the energy stuff. Only can be realized at its highest potential when you do have an understanding of the science and, and the nuts and bolts of things, I think. Yeah. So I do too. Horse training is a lot the same, a lot of it, more of it than not is intuition and energy based. Intention based, but there is some skill set there, there is some knowledge, there, there is some experience there that, that has to occur to progress, I suppose.
Josh: Yeah, no, that's a really great point. You know, I'm, I'm waiting for the day [00:22:00] when it's like in the matrix. So we can just sit down and download, you know, information and be just an instant Kung Fu master. Mm. But that is the paradox. Right? And that's, that's something that we've been really obsessed with over the last year is just finding that balance point in the paradox.
Cuz what is that point? It's really the definition of harmony mm-hmm and a lot of people's goals with horses is to work with them in a state of harmony. And that doesn't necessarily mean that's just all roses and rainbow. And unicorns no, it's the balance. It's, it's, it's actually balance it's in the middle mm-hmm right.
Victoria: And the only way to know where the middle is to. Go to the boundaries of either once in a while. So it's a process
Josh: mm-hmm mm-hmm . Yeah. And I think the same thing is true with any great art. If you're into music, like you can, you can feel music with the depth of emotion and power without ever playing an instrument.
But if you're gonna go sit at a piano or pick up a guitar, having not put in the time, the 10,000 hours. [00:23:00] You're not gonna be able to play good. You know, you're not gonna be able to play what you feel. I also think we can give you some shortcuts to just kind of plug right in to this energy field we're talking about too.
Mm-hmm , , it's just the way of communicating with your horse at the end of the day. It's a way for you to recognize and see your horse. Because they recognize you seeing them. Yes. And then they respond
Victoria: accordingly. Yes. So that's, what we're talking about , is letting the horse know in their language that we see them.
Yes. And I think that's empowering for us and it builds trust between our horses and us. There you go. And then from there, we can start to build. On other things like the body work or our writing practice. Let's have that be part two. Okay. Let's go to let's part two. We're gonna dive deeper into the actual technique.
Ah, okay. Of your, your body work practice. [00:24:00] Yes.
We're gonna do a part two where we get into some of the nuts and bolts and the technique that Josh teaches in our journey framework. Mm-hmm one of the things is the four B. Is that
Josh: right? Oh yeah. Yeah. The four BS, so this is something you can start doing right away. Right. So we've talked about the heart coherence and there's one other little detail about that, that I've got to share before we go into the four BS.
Okay. And that is that the horses, heart, that thing that they measure the heart rate variability, they're able to detect that up to 50 feet away from a horse. whoa. So think about that. You've got a horse and you've basically got this bubble surrounding 50 feet on all sides. And that is the horse's heart rate.
Variability. We call it the horse field.
Victoria: yeah. Cause we
Josh: like get it like force field. Yeah. But force horse field. Yes. Cause it's a horse.
Victoria: It's a horse field. Yeah.
Josh: [00:25:00] So, um, and humans, humans have a 10 foot. human shield.
Victoria: Human. Yeah, that is cool. Yeah. Yeah. Now do the, okay. We gotta dive deeper into the, that is totally fascinating and awesome.
Josh: . So because of the horse field, You have the power within you before you get to your horse to get to a place where you can automatically join in with your horse's horse field.
And that puts you on the level of the horse energetically and this all has to do with your nervous system, basically. So to kind. Play with that paradox of science and energy.
Breathing to Being: The Four B's
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Josh: So the four BS it starts with breathing to being is what the first two bees are breathing to being. And the, the being is a simple play on words, too, like human beings versus human doing.
So if you want to be a great horse body worker, you have to come from that state of just being you [00:26:00] can. Nerd out on the anatomy, call me, we can talk for hours. Work through and troubleshoot performance issues. Mm-hmm all day long. But if your real goal is just to connect with your horse and to see them and to know that have them feel like they're being seen by you, which creates trust and connection.
So you can build a relationship based on trust makes you. The human your horse wants you to be. Makes you a leader that they want to follow. That all comes from this kind of a thing on the ground. How do you get to a state of being this? You know, I, I live in the same world. You guys, do you drive to the barn, you get cut off.
You're pissed off. You've had a rough day. Maybe it's not even that bad, but your nervous system is just jacked up because you're always having to think of five things at once, , you know, you've gotta go pick up your kid at school or you've got homework due, whatever, you know, we all.
50 things on our mind. So what that does is it puts us in a hyperactive state and we don't even know it. It's kind of like this [00:27:00] low level state of a sympathetic nervous system response, which the horse knows nothing about our schedule knows nothing about our human worries, but it knows everything about the state of our nervous system.
Mm-hmm they can sense it a mile away. I think when you get out of the. The horse can feel that mm-hmm . So if you're stressed out, they're gonna feel it. And it's not like they're taking it personal. They're just thinking maybe there's something to worry about. Exactly.
Victoria: And I don't know how many times I've had students come, you know, screeching into their lesson down the driveway cars practically on two wheels, you know, slam into the parking spot then wonder why. They're having a hard time getting in the zone with their horse. Yeah. You gotta like take a minute before you step outta your car. .
Josh: We've all been there. So wouldn't it be cool to just have like, Like a two minute technique to change your state no matter what happens when you arrive. Cuz we like to view the barn as kind of a [00:28:00] sacred sanctuary, where you can leave your troubles behind and you arrive.
Just in the moment, no matter what happened before, just arrive in the moment and then meet your horse from that place. So the best way to do that are breathing exercises. It's actually really simple and there's a few simple breathing exercises. We teach in our challenge and of course we teach in the journey too, and we'll probably go over some in the podcast.
Stop and take a moment to breathe. You go from a state of breathing to being, and that puts you in a position where you can meld with your horse's horse field and you can meet them where they're at, and you can have a great experience doing body work. So then the last part of that to wrap up, cuz we know we're going a little late here is to go from the body, to the brain.
Remember, horse's brain is all motor cortex. And if you think about a brain again, we're going to go back into science here, cuz we're all about this paradox. And we're all about finding the middle line, the Razor's edge of [00:29:00] paradox.
Connecting Through the Nervous System
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Josh: So their nervous system, it goes down their spine and from the spine, it extends to every part of their body.
So you can anywhere you touch a horse. That is sending a signal back to their brain. So now, if you think about how much of their brain is motor cortex by working with their body, you're directly talking to their brain. So keep that in mind when you're working with a horse. Equine body work has everything to do with horses, muscles, and their bodies.
And it has nothing to do with their muscles and their bodies. And that's part of why there's the
Victoria: paradox. , it's part of the paradox, but it works because it's, it's true. It's
Josh: true. It's true. Yeah, because they've got all this muscle, but they also have the, their horse field. They've got this, Heart rate variability happening around them.
And it's all about the nervous system, which actually emits kind of energy and waves mm-hmm . But yet [00:30:00] that energy system is tied directly to their muscles. And we have an opportunity to interface with that by simply. Working with, through their body mm-hmm and that's how you communicate. That's one way it's one shortcut.
Mm-hmm , it's a bit of a hack mm-hmm one way that you can communicate with horses is directly through their body so the other great thing is that it takes a very light touch. You don't have to be big. You don't have to be tall. You don't have to be strong.
So many people would come to me cuz I'm like, I am over six, two. So people would say, oh, I could see why you're great with horses. Cuz you're like big and strong and stuff. And I just kind of chuckle, cause it actually takes a lot more work to work on a nervous person. . Than it does to work on a horse, right?
With a horse, all you have to do is plug into that nervous system and it actually takes a very light touch because you don't want to activate their brace response, right. Once you are connected into their nervous system and you're on that same wavelength, you can actually do some deep muscle work.
Sure. mm-hmm but the [00:31:00] goal is to connect with the horse through the nervous system.
Conclusion and Next Steps
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Josh: So anyway, we're gonna stop there cuz I'm, I'm getting on a flow. It's like more, it's
Victoria: talking about horses and I wanna hear more and I think our listeners wanna hear more. So part two of this podcast is going to we'll dive deeper into the four BS.
Yeah.
Josh: There's lots of stuff. We can dive deeper, deeper in, and I'll leave you with this. Um, if there's anything that you want to know about equine body work, send us a DM and we'll just put it in part two mm-hmm or part whatever, depending on when this, this might have many parts. Yeah. This is one of our early podcasts.
So, and the other thing is you can just go to our site, my horse journey.com. And we actually teach and have videos and more direct instruction about how to do some of the breathing exercises.
Mm-hmm and, and the first bit of body work that we teach people that actually do my horse journey, which is a really big in depth program. So, yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Check that out. If you wanna learn more. [00:32:00]
Victoria: All right. Folks, this has been lovely, we'll talk to you soon as always made the horse be with you. Bye-bye
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