Laura final edit 7-24
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Laura: [00:00:00] it might be a little giveaway to people who do round pen work, but I can tell you mine, the round pen can become symbolic of so many things in our life.
she basically, invite us to enter the round pen and to play, to interact with the horse. and from a place of being authentic and real I went in there and in my desire to not do it wrong and to be a perfectionist and I don't know what blah, blah, blah was going on in my head, fear. I went in there and, started, moving this poor horse . Cause I was like, what I was feeling and what I was showing were completely incongruent
and confused the daylights of that horse. and that little horse just started galloping or trying to get away from me basically. And I'm like, showing off round pen skills I'm totally not in myself. Bottom line, completely lost. Laura Forest was, I don't know where she was.
She was not in the round band. And, Barbara in a very loving, respectful way, asked me to stop and asked what was going on. I had no idea what was going on in inside me, [00:01:00] honestly none cuz I was totally detached from myself and had me do some breathing and some connection my getting in touch with what was really going on.
And when I stepped into that place, and let go of all the facades and masks, what happened between me and my, that horse was magical. I just stopped and just started crying. It was so beautiful how that horse joined up with me in connection in play. So that was my first experience where I was like, oh, I get what horses want.
I see now. So that a big aha for me.
Josh: So what do they want? what is it
Laura: to be real? to put all these stories I had in my head about how I should look or should be, or how people will see me. How I don't do it right.
How I need to do it better, to strip myself of all those stories and just come back to my heart. just come back to my realness and not care what people thought about me. , it's okay just to take a breath and be who I am and be vulnerable and be scared
Reflecting on Personal Growth
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Laura: And that was okay. I couldn't have got there [00:02:00] talking with a therapist it would've taken three years versus 20 minutes.
Welcome to the herd is calling podcast. This is where we break free from conventional norms to explore the art, science, and wonder of the horse human connection. I'm Josh Williams. And together with my wife, Victoria, we're your hosts. Our mission is to inspire. you to improve the lives of horses.
Subscribe to The Herd is calling on Substack for behind the scenes stories and unique content. Now let's get to the episode.
Josh: Welcome to the Herd is Calling podcast. Today we have a very special guest, Laura, Forest Couldn't be more happy to have Laura on the podcast. Today I'm gonna read just a very brief kinda liner notes of some of Laura's history and background so we can appreciate who she [00:03:00] is and what she's bringing to the podcast today.
Laura Forests received her undergrad in multicultural education from the University of Massachusetts, then move out west to DAOs, New Mexico to do her teaching internship. But when she realized that she was more interested in the home lives of the children she was teaching, she decided she wanted to be a c.
Laura earned her Master's in social work from Simmons College in 1987 and afterwards spent some years in Boston working in community mental health, a therapeutic high school, and as a medical social worker at Boston's Children Hospital. She returned to Santa Fe, New Mexico four years later, and worked as a counselor in an incest treatment program and a rape crisis center.
Laura is trained as an EMDR therapist and has combined years of training and other clinical modalities such as somatic therapy. Mindfulness meditation, D B T and more. Anne has been [00:04:00] in private practice for the past 30 years. She has incorporated and offers equine experiential therapy as part of her practice, she created a program with Victoria Williams called Discovery with Horses over 15 years ago, in which she facilitates workshops and retreats.
Her passions include her husband of 31 years, her daughters. Family, community, horses and world travel, especially seeing things from between the ears of a horse.
Welcoming Laura to the Podcast
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Josh: Welcome Laura. Yay. Laura. Wow. Good
Laura: to be here. How you guys ?
Josh: So happy you joined us today. You have so much. Wow. I don't, we're gonna have to make this a multi-part series cuz Laura has so much experience with horses from a horse, woman perspective.
Mm-hmm. from a equine therapy perspective. She has incredible world travel experiences. Mm-hmm. from Patagonia to Mongolia, [00:05:00] uh, to just name a couple . Mm-hmm. . So we have a lot to talk about today. We'll, what are we gonna start with today, Victoria?
Victoria: Well, we're talking more about Laura's personal horse journey.
Okay. And maybe, we'll, Get a little bit into the equine, the piece. Cool. Um, and see where section of, therapy and horses has sort of fleshed out for Laura. Mm-hmm. . But yeah, this is, we're gonna have to do multiple parts cause we have to hear about Mongolia. Patagonia, all from the back of a horse. Yeah. Um, yeah.
This is just the beginning. And Laura, and I have been friends for many, many years.
Josh: Yeah. You guys have been friends longer than we've known each
Victoria: other. Exactly. Yeah. . Um, so Laura officiated our wedding.
Josh: She did . So
Victoria: Laura is a very important person in our lives, and so we're, so, yeah. Uh, happy and lucky to have her, on our podcast today.
Josh: That's a privilege. So [00:06:00] thank
Victoria: you
Laura: guys. Thank you. You're two of my favorite humans on earth, so I'm, I feel, um, grateful and honored to be here and be part of. You know, this podcast. Yay.
Victoria: Yay.
Laura's Horse Life Today
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Victoria: So let's just dive right in. Yeah. Uh, Laura, can you tell us about your horse life these days, including like a snapshot of what your typical horse day looks like?
Laura: Sure. I pretty much decided that my horse life looks a lot better in the summer than it does in winters and band as it seems to snow, freeze, melt, slush, do everything within 24 hours. You just never know. But that being said, um, I, um, live on this beautiful, beautiful little, um, hobby farm, and tlo.
it's just outside of Bend and, where I get to have my horses actually, I can look out the window and there's my horses. Every window in my house I can kind of see horses. So I feel super lucky. [00:07:00] currently I have two geldings, one that was actually born on. Our property 20 years ago. actually related to Victoria's, one of her soul horses there.
Mm-hmm. and then my other horse, uh, Rio de Lavita. Rio is, 23 year old. Gelding both horses, despite being a little bit. definitely don't act it particularly bohi, um, , then we have another horse that, boards here, so, I think your question is, what was my d what was the question as I can start talking about my horses and I, I don't think that's the idea of the podcast.
Victoria: No, that's great. Just, just No, that's a wonderful snapshot of, of what your life with horses looks like. Kind of just if we, if we just zoomed in for a second. Yeah. You've got this beautiful place out in tumble, which is just a lovely sort of oasis type area. It's a really
Josh: beautiful place in central
Victoria: Oregon.
Um, magical.
Josh: You do a lot of trail riding today, [00:08:00] like these days. I mean, maybe not like literally right now, . Cause it's snowy and icy, ,
Laura: I can trail ride right from my property. and that's kind of the main modality. I've also been part of my horse journey this past year, which has really been a highlight in my, my own personal journey of horsemanship.
And, that's been. amazing. Absolutely amazing. I've done that with my, horse bok. And so, just kind of, sinking into, what, Josh and Victoria, have created with my horse journey. That's really been a huge part of my horse world these past couple of years. , I'm now working from home since Covid, which has been awesome because I have a year on our property and so I get to interact with my horses probably 12 times a day.
I get to feed them in the morning, they get lunch now. They're so excited that I work from home. I, you know, get to give them dinner. I interact with them on the ground, not riding. Many, many hours of a day. And I think I feel really lucky that I get to actually have them at [00:09:00] home. So our relationship is really based on just, they're part of our family.
You know, I interacted with them maybe more than I do with my husband on some days, so. Sure. Yeah. That's kind of what my horse world looks like at the moment.
Victoria: Yeah, that's good. That's really good.
Early Love for Horses
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Victoria: Why were you first drawn to horses? how did it all begin?
Laura: You know, that was a great question and honestly, I mean, I, I'll just say I was born with it.
I cannot remember a moment when there was this aha love horses. It just was something that honestly goes as far back in my memory that there was something about horses, even just photos of horses, cuz I wasn't, didn't get to be around horses. I come from a totally non horsey family. Nobody could understand what was, you know, what I was bewitched with and why it made no sense.
so I really think it just, I like, you know, we can kind of look past lives, we can look at all sorts of things, but bottom line is I think I came into this world [00:10:00] wired to, to be drawn to horses. Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah. What can you tell us about your first horse? I, I feel like there's, there's some, there's some stuff there that would be really,
Laura: yeah.
Yeah.
First Horse and Formative Years
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Laura: So, so, um, you know, I think, as I said, it was this horse crazy toddler. and then as I got a little older, you know, I don't know if you, showing my age a bit, but it used to be back of, cereal boxes for those older folks out there. They would have all these contests that you could win a pony and they'd have the pony.
Seriously, they would be on the back of
Josh: suit, like an actual pony, like,
Laura: oh yeah, yeah,
Josh: yeah.
Laura: Be on the back, you know, all the cereal boxes would have, the whole back would be win a pony. And I have a little, she with a little western saddle and it usually was like a little paint. And I, and then you had to cut out the cardboard and fill your name in.
And, I remember as far as back as I could remember, I begged my mother to just enter the [00:11:00] contest and my grandmother, had a little plot of land. Now if I go by and look at it, back in the, it was probably. a 20th of an acre . I mean, it was like, but she said to me, someday day when if you still love horses or you win the pony, you can keep your horse here.
So I was like all in that . Um, and she promised me that I could have a horse. if I still loved horses, she would buy me a horse at 13. my whole childhood was around anything that could, any way I could be around horses anyway. I mean, muck stalls, sta you know, begged them for lessons. Fast forward when I was 13, I cashed in . Oh yeah. I was not gonna, you didn't forget. Did not forget, we found this very overweight horse that hadn't been ridden in. 10 years. I think he was 12. I don't know. Uh, he was this black Morgan court of horse. We bought him. My family knew nothing about horses, no vet checks, nothing.
Just, [00:12:00] okay, $500 price is right. It's your horse .
Victoria: Um,
Laura: seriously. And you know, when I look back on that now, it's like, I named that Horse Miyamoto, which is my dear one. that horse was the horse. You could gallop through cornfield's, blindfold. You could have you, I would clean his sheath, you know, standing there.
I would. swim across Lakes that I had no idea if there was a bottom. I mean, he was the horse, total trust, total partnership. got him down his weight, got him down, started showing him to four H Pony Club. He was the greatest horse that I've ever owned
Victoria: and all
Laura: was the back, the backyard. Didn't know what the heck we were doing worse.
So he became instrumental in my, my formative years for sure.
Victoria: Wow. Yeah. Wow.
Navigating Life and Career
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Victoria: And so once you were on the path, you know, and, and sort of moved on and got older, how did your journey [00:13:00] progress to mal?
Laura: Yeah, that's a big question. Boy, you know, I mean, , I had mi a motto through high school. when I went off to college, I had to sell 'em.
something to a little girl. It made me very happy. but through many, many years of, of moving, trying to figure out who I was, career stuff, I couldn't own a horse again. You know, I just, I was always renting, you know, just, I didn't get married until I was older. So I was on the move a lot and would just, you know, wherever I could find a horse to ride, find a horse to brush, you know, whatever I could do.
It didn't matter. Stall to clean anything I could do to, to stay connected to horses. Um, knowing that someday my dream was to own a place and, have horses of my own and raise chil my children with horses. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, it wasn't until I moved to Bend, Oregon when I was 40 and had, my younger daughter was, [00:14:00] a year old and.
I got pregnant again with my second daughter, but I bought a horse, it's been that way ever since. So yeah, it, there was a bunch of years where, you know, just owning horses was just not something I could do for so many reasons.
Victoria: Yeah, I mean, I think that's, we've, we've talked to a few people now on the podcast and it's definitely a theme, like kind of drawn to horses as when they're young and then, you know, that young adulthood having to go out and Yeah.
And be a young adult. . Yeah. Horses sometimes have to have to take a backseat, but the other common thread is that, we all figure out ways to stay connected to horses in some way, shape, or form. Absolutely. And I think that's pretty cool and very interesting too. .
Laura: Yeah. It sort of al always became my part of the equation of whatever I, whatever I did, it's how to keep horses in my life.
it never went away. Not even, I don't [00:15:00] think it ever, you know, ever went away. It was always there in the background that this was my passion and it wasn't something I was just gonna not be passionate about just because I couldn't own my own horse. Right,
Victoria: right. Yeah, I mean, that's so powerful too, when we think about visualization and manifestation.
you ended up manifesting your dream life, having the, the little farm, having horses all around. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty powerful when you think about that progression. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah. I honestly, you know, I appreciate you saying that, Victoria, because I hone, I don't take it for granted. . Mm-hmm. . I pinch myself often when I'm out on Rio or Bode and I'm out there in the, out of the reservoir and the, you know, cascades looming there and I'm riding with a friend or riding alone.
and I come back to my beautiful little farm. I have my little trailer, you know, I'm living my dream. Yeah. I 2:00 AM and I never take that for granted. I [00:16:00] constantly feel reminding myself how blessed I am, but it didn't come easy. I will say that. It didn't just drop into my lap. There were a lot of, really hard life experiences.
, it wasn't like all, you know, rainbows and unicorns. You know, it, there was. Many, many rocky, speed bumps along the way, and definitely some few deep ditches. Um, yeah, . So, but I do now go, oh, this is, I'm living my dream, so, yeah.
Victoria: Yeah. Well that vision of the dream, is sort of the, the north star, right? It's keeps you Absolutely working through those ditches and valleys and trenches. ,
Laura: I just wanna say, you know, as, as I was thinking about this podcast, like making the wrong turns, and there were turns I almost made that, I mean, there were
Victoria: definitely
Laura: junctures in the path that could have been led my life in a very different, different direction.
So, following, yeah, that [00:17:00] North Star, like keeping that vision of what, what, who are you really, and why are you here on this earth and what is it you want? And don't, don't get off the path. Cuz you get off the path. You're off the path, right? So, there are many steps along the way where things could have been much.
Victoria: when you're thinking about some of those choices or some of those moments that, that could set you on a path that could have made things unfold differently, what's like a, just if you had a one or two lessons that come up that, that resonate these days that came out of those Yeah.
Submittable experiences. What, yeah, what do you think back on and go, whoa, that was actually a really good lesson. . Yeah.
Laura: Or good choice . Right, right. A bad choice. Yeah. No, I mean, I'll, I'll be really upfront. you know, I'm a therapist so I, you know, I try to be as authentic and real and not hide my.
Therapy and Personal Growth
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Laura: but I think, you [00:18:00] know, one of the early ones was being in a very, very abusive relationship and, um, living with somebody who I, um, was hurting me and, um, getting outta that relationship.
That was, that was a, that was a huge, very, this was my early twenties. I was living, um, out in Taos Pueblo, um, out in New Mexico. and that was making that choice to get outta that relationship when I was very much alone and didn't have a horse as my guide. That was, uh, I wish there, there were horses in my life through that it would've made it easier.
other times, I mean, a little self-disclosure, you know, walking away from a wedding. Mm. Um, a really lovely person, but knowing that, that, um, in the deepest of my hearts moving, uh, he came, he came from another country and moving to another country, you that I, I wouldn't have my dream. And part of that dream was having the horses in my dream.
And, um, as much as I cared about him, knowing that that was, that was his path, that wasn't my [00:19:00] path.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. . So
Laura: very, very, very hard decisions that caused, you know, and then the rough years after that. so, you know, just things like that, like, like really checking in, like, you know, is this my life? Is this, is this my dream?
I think that's, you know, that's really important to constantly check in. Am I doing what I want to be doing or am I doing it because I should be doing it? Or it's too hard not to do it? Or there's too, it's too scary what might be on the other side, the unknown. So, you know, I know that's where people get really stuck, in that fear, so, wow.
Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah. I mean, just looking at, at the life that you have manifested, I, I the kind of gives me chills thinking about some of those watershed moments mm-hmm. and the underlying thread seems to be courage. Yeah. You know, making the decision that was actually harder was, you know, you knew somewhere deep down it was the right [00:20:00] decision, but it wasn't the easy decision.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely the easiest is always just to stay put, and don't do any do what, you know, even if what you know is, is really unhealthy for you. But yeah, taking that step into, chomping in over that bridge of unknown. is really, I think, where growth comes from. I mean, it really, really is and, and trust.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's great you brought up that word, Victoria, because in, in, you know, my horse journey, that's been my mantra. trust it's really becoming my mantra. It, I realize it's always been there. I just wasn't, I, I just didn't name it. I got to name it in my horse journey, which was really cool.
Yeah,
Victoria: very cool. Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask how have some of those experiences that were rougher or those kind of moments that were difficult inform the type of horse person you are now? And I think you just answered that [00:21:00] question. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Laura: yeah. I think just, you know, the other pieces that I think inform myself as a horse person, horse woman, is trusting your intuition.
Victoria: Mm.
Laura: listening to your gut, being real with that. Don't try to hide it or pretend that you're not feeling it. Like, be with it. Lean into it. Not to sound like Brene Brown, but I think that's a really good, you know, leaning into that discomfort and, and being curious with it and, and, and looking at it as your guide.
I think, you know, yeah. So I could go off on, you know, the whole thing with horses, but I think, yeah, that just, being authentic and real with yourself, even if it hurts, even if it's hard. Hmm.
Victoria: And
Laura: horses, you know, certainly need that from us to be as real and as authentic, as we can be in order for them to trust us and trust that, we're not playing a game.
We're going to, do something tricky. Um, right.
Victoria: I, I am thinking about [00:22:00] what you said about when you were in, New Mexico and doing your teaching internship after your undergrad, and you realized that maybe you were more interested in the kids' home lives that you were working with than, in the classroom with them.
Is, was that the moment you decided you wanted to be a therapist or did that unfold over a longer period of time? How did that all come?
Laura: Yeah, no, that's a great question. Thanks for asking that. being a therapist, look, I was the middle child, only girl. my family life wasn't awesome.
You know, it was not awesome, and I was always mediating and kind of being the caretaker. so I think my natural born inclination to be a therapist started from my home life. It was just, yeah, what I ended up doing. but I didn't know that's what I wanted to do as a career, right.
I knew I wanted, because I was very, very unhappy as a kid. And, and, back to horses, they were my happy place [00:23:00] for sure. that first horse, I, I sometimes say saved my life as a teenager, right? for sure. Um, that relationship with that horse. but I think I was, became interested in, helping people with depression and anxiety and trauma, all the things I was experiencing.
It's kind of all I knew. So I sort of thought, oh, okay. maybe someday I could. Work with people not knowing it was gonna be as a counselor. But yeah, when I, went out to New Mexico and, and had the privilege of living at Taos on the Pueblo at TAUs Pueblo, I was just intrigued and interested in what was going on culturally among the kids I was working with and what was going on in their home life cuz they just would share with me.
And that felt really, it just felt very natural. So I think, and teaching didn't, I was a terrible teacher. I just, I sp I can't spell, you know, and if you're a teacher that's , um, that's definitely an issue. I was, had parents writing letters saying, uh, about that second grade teacher. Would she [00:24:00] like, uh,
But anyhow, that's a whole other story. But anyhow, so, so I think it was then that, I left New Mexico. I got out of that abusive relationship. And my first year in Boston it was, I was a case manager working with elderly. Folks that were, um, in the worst neighborhoods of Boston. and that opened my eyes to social work.
My supervisor was a social worker, and from there it was like, oh, this is what I want to do.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. . So,
Laura: um, that's where that, and it felt natural and interesting, and my graduate program was fascinating. And so from there, that's kind of where I decided to make it a career.
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. I hear, I hear courage, I hear vulnerability, I hear, um, empathy.
I dislike all the things all your attributes and qualities that started to fall into place and align, to set you on this path. Yeah. Yeah.
Equine Psychotherapy Journey
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Victoria: and then so the equine psychotherapy, how did you become involved with that? What, [00:25:00] how did, I mean, it seems like a very natural progression, but there had to been a moment.
Right? Right.
Laura: Well, yeah, that's, that's, that's another great question. I think, you know, here I was a psychotherapist, did my own talk therapy, in my twenties to get through all that mess. but then in my, really my forties. I wanted to do more personal work, but I didn't want to talk to a therapist, horses for me were my way of healing.
I knew that, like, that was for me, something would shift and change and ahas would come up for me when I was around a horse, not a psychotherapist. Ironically, I am one, so not really making a big stance for doctor therapist, but the truth was for me that I started seeking, programs to go do my personal work.
Mm-hmm. . And it really started from there that I went to, I believe it was with Barbara. No, my first was with iga. And um, [00:26:00] and then I met, Barbara Rector, who's kind of one of the pioneers in this field. I went and did a workshop. For with her as a participant. Totally. As, and I had a moment, a couple moments during that workshop that blew me off my feet.
Victoria: Mm.
Laura: Insight into myself with the horses. Wow. And then I was like, okay, th this. So then I'm like, whoa, I like this kind of therapy. So I kept on, seeking, really researching who's doing this work, to go do more personal work. I did a huge grief piece for myself with another, person who's in this field.
And then kind of as I started doing that, I started realizing like, whoa, wait a minute. I could bring book, I could do this not just as a participant, but this is something I should be incorporating the, in my therapy practice. So it was real. , you know, no brainer. Like, oh my gosh.
So then I started continuing doing my personal work, [00:27:00] but with another lens of looking at what people were doing and then saying, oh, this really resonates and works for me. This absolutely does not work for me. And started gathering, information. so that's kind of how that entered. And then, you know, I started talking with my very dear friend, Victoria Williams, and said, Vic , let's partner up.
Let's do this. so that was sort of the, the progression. It really just started for me seeking, um, my own therapist, which I knew was gonna be a horse.
Victoria: Right, right.
Laura: And there's a lot of good horse therapies, therapists out there.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. .
Laura: Yeah. . Not, not the people, the horses, the four legged ones. Right. The four legged ones.
Yeah. Yeah, for
Victoria: sure. Right. Yeah. I, I think, when you first sort of brought me into the fold Yeah. I remember being kind of blown away and also it was very hard for me, especially initially to sort [00:28:00] of, take off my horse trainer riding instructor lens mm-hmm. when it came to the therapy mm-hmm.
And you really helped me a lot with that. Like you really helped me learn how to have both things be true at the same time. Like there is, you know, some, some horsemanship that has to be attended to here, but there's also needs to be this space for growth and interpretation and not trying to manage or control everything, with clients and horses.
that's been an ongoing awakening process for me. Mm-hmm. . and probably informs a lot of the actual horse training and writing instruction that is not, you know, quote unquote therapeutically based, so to speak, but realizing that they actually aren't mutually exclusive ever.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Is, is that kinda your experience with your [00:29:00] force woman hat and your therapist hat? Do you find, do you find that there's contradiction there or that the blending, like how do you navigate those?
Laura: I think that there's blending, there's such a beautiful blending mm-hmm. , there's an unfolding that's just so natural in both those, both those worlds.
Right. And again, I think it's because of the horse, the nature of the horse and what the horse gifts us and offers us. and their own, you know, even the horse's own. , you know, I call horses shamans because I think they are shamans on some way. so, yeah, I mean it all, it's, I, that's why I, I truly believe bringing horses into a healing or a therapeutic or a growthful, Experience for people is perfect.
It's different than dogs I think using animals for any kind of therapy is fabulous for sure. But horses are special in what they offer us. So I'm not sure I answered your question. I kind of No, it's, it's beautiful. I,
Victoria: I think you nailed it.
The Unique Healing Power of Horses
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Victoria: if you had to [00:30:00] sort of sum up, which I think it's really hard to sum up, but if you could just bring together what it is, about horses that makes that kind of therapy so special, equine therapy.
So special. what do you think it is? If you could just sort of Yeah. Put it into couple little bullet points. I know, yeah.
Laura: Oh, that's such a big question. Um, but, okay. So let me just sit with that for a second. , You know, okay, I'm not gonna go on the whole horses or, um, prey animals, not predators. But I think there is something to be said that a prey animal is working with many different senses and, always aware of where there's danger or mistrust or, so they're operating on, on a, a very different level than maybe a dog who's a, not a prey animal, who's a predator.
so horses, they're, they're, they're tuning in their senses. Their awareness is their ability to be in the moment, completely [00:31:00] using their hearts, their energy fields. , their basic, we won't go off on brain science, but that's a whole other podcast. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
so here they are, these amazing, he and they're size, they're big, right? They're powerful. They can be intimidating. Talk about paradox sensitive, but strong and powerful. Right? Exactly. Exactly. So they have these hearts of gold and this deep intuitive, and, you know, intuition and these senses, but there are these big bodies, you know, that can be very intimidating and they can be powerful and they could be, you know, dangerous too, if they're scared or, you know, whatever.
So, so there is that paradox. So what a perfect paradox then to bring to us humans, because we have all that too, right? We could be. We can be predators, we can be angry and scared and, dangerous. We can be, you know, and we can be in our heart and in our vulnerability and be mindful [00:32:00] and aware if we learn how to do that.
Okay? So, so there you bring these, you know, humans and horses together to kind of do some chacha of sorts to kind of figure stuff out with each other. horses also need us to be authentic and real, and that's huge because we wear so many masks. Right. you know, we all have our, our facades and our masks and horses.
They, they don't go for that. They don't, and they don't give two rips what we look like or what our sexuality is, or how much money we make, or how important we are. They don't care. They just see us as beings. So we get to strip away all that crap that defines us and have to really reach into our truest, most authentic self to be able to gain their trust and become partners in connection with them.
And I can't think of any other animal. Well, you know, and honestly, in all fairness, [00:33:00] I don't study lions and monkeys. So maybe, maybe there is, I just do horses, horses are enough for me, but. But, but, but there lies the beautiful relationship and those opportunities for healing and insights and ahas and to we are and who we are because you hear that cliche, horses are the mirrors, blah, blah, blah.
Well, that's true. Right? But they're more than mirrors. They're not mirrors, they're sentient beans. They're, they're not a thing. Okay. So they're constant interacting and feeling us and in, and, and teaching us every second. Woo. I went on a tantrum.
Victoria: I know that was a gorgeous tangent.
Josh: I'm just taking notes, Laura.
Like a masterclass.
Victoria: Love. Yeah. Like I'm sensing, um, a masterclass CoLab with Laura on. On this, but no, that was wonderful.
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Josh: I don't wanna take you guys off the train of exploring why horses are such great therapeutic agents, but Laura, I did wanna just ask you if you could share a little bit, you mentioned you had a couple of moments of the Barbara Reicher, did I say her name right?
Barbara Recer.
Victoria: Uhhuh ,
Josh: uh, you've said like an insight to self. I was wondering if you. , do you mind sharing a little bit about that? No, I'll, I'll share it. I,
Laura: it might, it might be a little giveaway [00:35:00] to people who do round pen work, but I can tell you mine, the round pen the round pen can become symbolic of so many things in our life.
But basically she, invited, us and, and me being the very, eager, student asked who wants to go first? So I was like, I'll go, I'll go Well, that was interesting. Anyhow, so she basically, in a long story short, invite us to enter the round pen and to play, to interact with the horse. and, and from a place of being authentic and real that, that.
Kind of the guide, guiding lines. And so I went in there and in my desire to be, to not do it wrong and to be a perfectionist and I don't know what blah, blah, blah was going on in my head, fear. I went in there and, and started, moving this poor horse . Cause I was like, what I was feeling and what I was showing were completely incongruent And confused the daylights of that horse. And, and that [00:36:00] little horse just started galloping or trying to get away from me basically. And I'm like, you know, showing off some round pen skills and I'm like, you know, pat Perelli and I'm totally not in myself. Bottom line, completely lost. Laura Forest was, I don't know where she was.
She was not in the round band. And, Barbara in, in a very loving, respectful way, asked me to stop and asked what was going on. I had no idea what was going on in inside me, honestly none cuz I was totally detached from myself and had me do some breathing and some connection with my getting in touch with what was really going on.
And when I stepped into that place, and let go of all the facades and masks what happened between me and my, that horse was magical. I just stopped and just started crying. It was so beautiful how that horse joined up with me in connection in play. Mm-hmm. . So that was my first experience where I was like, [00:37:00] oh, I get what horses want.
I see now. So that was, that was a, a big aha for me.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. . Wow.
Josh: Mm-hmm. . Wow. Thanks for sharing that. What, yeah. So what do they want? What was the, what is it
Laura: to be real? To put all my, to put all these stories I had in my head about how I should look or should be, or how people will see me. How, you know, how I don't do it right.
How I need to do it better, how I need to do it, you know, to strip myself of all those stories and just come back to my heart. just come back to my realness and not care what people thought about me. Mm-hmm. , because that was a big one. And going first I thought, I'm gonna show off my horsemanship skills.
That's who I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be the horse woman. Right. Who knows a lot of things. No, that wasn't what was being called for. That horse didn't want me to be pushing him around the round pan at a full gallop, you know? So, so I think that was like, it's okay [00:38:00] just to stop, take a breath and be who I am and be vulnerable and be scared and be.
Not know what they have to do.
Reflecting on Personal Growth
---
Laura: And that was okay. And so I think that was the lesson, for me in that moment. I don't, I couldn't have got there talking with a therapist or maybe, but it would've taken three years versus 20 minutes.
Victoria: Right. . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's beautiful.
That's, that's the stuff, that's what we're all looking, I mean the, the, that's the truth, right? Yeah, yeah,
Laura: yeah. That's the truth. And so, it was very humbling, you know, it was a humbling experience to get out of my ego and step into my heart and be present in a way that I'm a pretty anxious person.
So sometimes it's hard for me to be present cuz I get anxious.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. And I
Laura: have to stop, take those breaths, ground myself. , [00:39:00] be curious about what's causing the anxiety and then let it go. Okay. And horses help us with that. Yeah, they really do. So, yeah.
The Power of Tears
---
Josh: Well, do you have, I might be using you for therapy a little bit, but , I'm curious the, the tears, you know, like you said, you, you made you cry when you came to that realization.
Do you know? Cause I mean, I've felt that, I've seen, seen it happen. Like, what, where do the tears come from? It feels like something, it's like so beautiful, but it then you're kind of like, why am I crying? Do you have a, a feeling or what was it for you in that moment that, that brings tears and what do those tears mean?
Laura: Yeah. No, that's a, another great question. And I'm thinking about another experience I had as a client with a horse. Where I literally, um, fell to my knees. There weren't tears. There were [00:40:00] sobs.
Victoria: Mm
Laura: sobs, and we're talking full on snots coming out of the nose, you know, sobs like I was to my knees. and that's a whole great story, what happened in that.
But I think for me, the tears of release, you know, they can be release, they can be the deepest of emotion. I I, I sometimes cry when I'm with a client and I see them go through a, a, a very, huge, profound shift. And I'll cry, because I'm so touched in the deepest of my soul. And I think, I cried in Patagonia when I was galloping a horse on the beach because that was, my tears were of joy like, The deepest, deepest of joy.
So I think I see tears can be so many things, you know, but I think they are really like, okay, so this is a little metaphor that just came up in my head, but it's like we have this beautiful blue, [00:41:00] oh, this is also Patagonia, beautiful little blue lagoon in our souls. You know, it's like turquoise water and it's like sacred water.
And I sometimes see our tears come from that deepest place within us, whether it be grief, whether it be joy, whether it be connection, you know, to another human, or a profound shift. To me, it's like, it's where we touch life in its most profound way. Mm-hmm. . So that's, Ugh, I'm getting goose.
Goosebumps just saying this. Me
Victoria: too .
Laura: So, yeah, I think tears can mean so many things, but I think if we can really tap in and let it happen and not start labeling it as, oh, it's weakness when we cry, you know, we get that we tough, don't, don't show tears. That's, you know, tears are our life force. They're our strength.
They're the most courageous part of who we are.
Victoria: Wow.
Laura: [00:42:00] Yeah. I mean, I think if forces could cry, they would a lot. Right. . But they do it, you know, but they're just, their eyes work in different ways. They cry in a different way. But anyhow. Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Victoria: Whew. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. That's, I feel like I, I am, I know more about something right now about something that's sort of mystical and, and.
Unknown. So that, that is really special. And
Laura: that's, and I'll say that's my interpretation. Right. You know, that's just what it is. My, that's my experience. Mm-hmm. , it can be so different for somebody else, and that's just Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah.
Laura: How I experience it. So, um, I'm not an expert on crime by any means. What it means, , I need something really different for everybody.
Sure, sure. If that's what it's for me.
Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you, you have some experience in that department too, so, [00:43:00] so I think it's really helpful.
Josh: I would like to come back to equine therapy too.
A Life of Service
---
Josh: Okay. But I wanted to ask Laura, like, what your life is, it's so in service to others from a young age.
You know, you were all, it seemed like you, it seemed like you're always seeking a role of service in the world. You know, I, the, the degree of social work and counseling, the, those professions are so profound. I know you've one of Victoria's inspirations mm-hmm. for entering her MSW program. Mm-hmm. . And do you, I, I don't know what my question is exactly.
I'm just kind of wondering, what, what do you think drew you to that
Laura: I could say the role I had in my families, my parents were divorced really young, when I was really young. But I, I get it. I just, I think it's just who I am, you know? Mm-hmm. , I think it's who I am. I, it's how I came into the world. it's just what feels natural to me. [00:44:00] It's my, where I'm my comfort place.
It's, it's your truth. Like I don't, yeah, it's my truth. I mean, I, I just feel like, I don't feel fulfilled if I'm not in doing of some sort of service. It's like, it, it's like what, what I was meant to do on this planet. I don't know. It's just mm-hmm. . Yeah. I don't know. It just feels, you know, jokingly talked about doing other careers or trying, you know, I get tired of being a therapist or my, you know, well is full or, I start thinking, well, boy, I could, you know, do this and make lots of money, and I go, I'd be unhappy.
The bottom line is I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be a happy person i'd, I'd be an unfulfilled person, so it fulfills something in me. Right. Um, and I don't know what that is.
Victoria: I think it's so interesting that you just, Knew that and were able to stay true to that from such a, an early age. I think that's mm-hmm.
what Josh is trying to wrap his head around. What, yeah. [00:45:00] It's like many of us, I think, get on a, a journey in our lives where we have to kind of come back to that truth or come back to our essential truth or edict by, by which our north star, by which we live our life. And it just seems like you, you just had a very clear picture of that and you stayed true to it, um, through your whole life and you made decisions that kept you on that path.
And I think that is pretty unique and, it's very inspirational for me. . Thank you. Thank
Josh: you. Yeah, it is, and you can see just from, I know those are just a couple, you know, major moments, but I know you've had many more, where that truth was really forged, you know, those right hard decisions.
I mean, those are hard decisions you made and it's, it's almost like that was the sort of fires that purified that direction and kept you on the path and [00:46:00] as a metaphor.
Laura: Yeah. I feel, you know, and honestly, you know, I'm just listening to you both. I'm, I'm very touched, you know, I never really thought of it that way.
I mean, it's something about sharing your story that all of a sudden you go, oh, oh, really? Know that about myself. You know? It's sort of interesting. But, but I also feel very lucky and blessed because I know that's not the, I know that's not, that, that's not. Not everybody gets to have Right. That clarity.
And I feel as I say blessed because I don't feel like it's naturally something that I did. It's just how it unfolded, what my life that this life is about for me. And I feel, yeah, I feel I feel lucky that my passions and, and my knowing, that deep knowing which I do feel I've had since I was a kid, you know, has been, has always been there and it's really helped me.
Victoria: Hmm.
Navigating Life Transitions
---
Laura: Um, that being said, I will say I'm in a time in my life right now that, [00:47:00] my daughters have moved on. You know, they're creating their own families and careers. my husband and I are getting older. There's a shift, and I'm not really totally sure where that's gonna, where I'm going next.
So it's really an, a perplexing time for me. Mm-hmm. . Very perplexing and, and a little uncomfortable. you know, cuz it's a, it's a different phase of my life, which is, the golden years, whatever the heck that is, you know, but I kind of know what I don't want. So I'm kind of using what I don't want as the guide right now finding my way from there.
Victoria: Hmm. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that too. That's just the thing. We never quite have it all figured out, . That is the paradox.
Josh: It's not like you just decide, this is my path and I'm gonna stay true to it. It's like it has to be every day. Yeah. You're tested and, and things change.
You know, life changes, situations, changes. yeah.
Laura: And then I will say, excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt, but then I go back to that mantra. It's [00:48:00] trust. It's going to unfold. Trust that if I don't know what's around the corner, that's okay. Today that I will see what's around the bend.
It will, it will unfold. And I ha I'm just trying to really sink into trust. Like do what feels right, right now. Even if you aren't sure what's ahead. it's interesting, and I'll just say like this trip I just got back a week ago from, Chile, pat Patagonia. I knew this is what I have to do now.
That was really clear. Like, I gotta do this trip now. I do not, I cannot put it off. Mm-hmm. .
Victoria: So
Laura: I'm just sort of like those little tidbits of, of pieces of like, and once it comes in my head, there's no turning away from it. Like, I gotta do it. So I'm hoping that will continue
Heck am I gonna do when I turn 65, you know?[00:49:00]
Josh: Yeah. It seems like it, well, your, but it is interesting. You have to keep . You're always gonna be tested. I guess it's interesting too, just the way you talked about your. Drive to serve and, and led you to your career, uh, was really similar to the way you talked about horses,
Victoria: huh?
Josh: And that you were really born with it, that it was just kind of deep inner drive you, it's not really even a conscious, seems like it came from the ether, or who knows where. .
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Mm-hmm. , I'll have to listen back on this podcast and learn some things about myself.
Victoria: right. .
Laura: Do some journaling after this.
Victoria: It's rich. It's rich. And this is just gonna be part one. Yeah.
Josh: Yeah. . There's so much I want to dig into with equine therapy cuz Laura has, what's cool about you, Laura? Um, one of the many things is that you had such a long history with being a therapist and working in so [00:50:00] many different settings and horses and then you took that and you've learned so many different.
Ways to use, equine therapy. Mm-hmm. different applications you've studied with so many different great trainers and different paths. So I just, I, I really want to dig into that, but I know that's gonna be like a whole Yeah. Discussion. So maybe that would be a good part too.
Victoria: Okay. More, more the different modalities.
Josh: I can't wait to hear that. Yeah, yeah,
Victoria: yeah. Sure. Yeah.
The Essence of Trust
---
Victoria: Well, so if we were gonna start maybe kinda rounding, honing this do you think that your life experiences with horses have helped you be a better therapist?
Laura: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. You wanna hear why? Yes, yes, of course. Um, I think, you know, honestly, like, I think what I offer my clients the most or what I'm [00:51:00] best at is that I can be, I think with my clients, I am very much who I am. I don't, I'm not a scary therapist. I'm not a, and, and I break some, I break, I
Victoria: break the rules.
Laura: I mean, I went to, you know, I went to a very traditional clinical social work program. Sophie Freud was one of my professors, granddaughter Freud very, you know, we, you, you don't show yourself. You're the tapa. You know, you don't share anything about yourself. You don't have a photo of your family in your office like you are like, That's how I was trained, and that just didn't work for me.
And so, I think how I show up with my clients is what I'm learning to show up and how I show up for my horses, which is just try to be real and authentic with my [00:52:00] clients, I think what helps the most important thing in a therapeutic relationship is trust. It's all about the relationship.
You know, it's not about how many theories, you know, or are you doing this, you know, EMDR the most correct way, or blah blah, blah. It's really how you are in relationship because that's really everything comes down to relationships, connection. so I think as a therapist, I am, I'm very real. I'm approachable.
I think, um, people can trust me because they know. . I'm, I'm just another human being in the room with them holding space and love and best wishes. and I try to do that with my horses. I think my horses know that about me. Um, they we're learning a lot of it through, you know, my horse journey has really helped me, you know, practice that.
But I think that is, you know, horses want us to be congruent, authentic, and real, to be able to trust us and be in partnership and connection with us. Same, same, yeah. As a, as a therapist and a client. Because if you don't have that foundation, you have [00:53:00] nothing. You're not gonna, you're not gonna get anything accomplished.
You're going to be doing, you know, circles and kicking up a lot of dust for no reason. , right? Yeah. Right. So I think that's the, that's with my, my connection and partnership with horses helps me be a better therapist cuz I have to operate from the same places. Did
Victoria: that answer
Laura: your
Victoria: question? It absolutely did.
Okay. Yeah, it absolutely is. Beautiful. so the common thread, mm-hmm. Between horses and human relationships is, would you say trust, would you say? Connection
Laura: and
Victoria: trust.
Laura: Connection
Victoria: and trust.
Laura: If you don't have trust, there's nothing. You can't do anything. You know, I mean, it's gonna be just a scary place.
So, yeah. I think trust and then connection comes from that. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Right. if my horse doesn't trust me, [00:54:00] he's not, or she's not gonna wanna connect with me, we're not gonna have a, any kind. And it's the same with my clients. They're not gonna be vulnerable and open up to me.
Right. If they don't trust
Victoria: me,
Laura: they shouldn't. Right. If they do, then you should talk about how they get an abusive. relationships, cuz that's probably what they do. You know? But, but that's, so using, I use the relationship with my clients, me and them, just like with horses. And that's, that's I think really important in being a therapist.
Like, I even had a client yesterday, you know, talk a little bit about her, you know, kind of her fear of, you know, someday when I retire, whatever. And I said, well, we need to, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. But not like, from a deep level of what it means to care about somebody and then they leave.
Like, that's really what we're talking about here.
Victoria: Wow. And
Laura: you know, it's not so, so it's just all, it's all about relationship [00:55:00] and I think therapist, client, horse, horse person. Mm-hmm. relationship. . Bam. That's it. Wow. Mic
Victoria: drop. .
Laura: There's a little more, but yeah. .
Josh: Right? That's powerful. That's, it's so cool that how people who are really, you know, good masters of their craft can simply explain really deep and complicated things.
So I really appreciate that.
Victoria: Yes. That was beautiful. And yeah, a, a, a tribute to Laura's mastery. Mm-hmm. , I think. Mm-hmm. , I think it's, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing it. So we just have a few more questions, but if folks we're gonna look you up, get involved with what you've got going on, how do they get in touch with you?
What's the best way and what, what projects are you working on , how can people connect with those projects? That's, that's,
Laura: uh, that's a [00:56:00] hard question because here I am. in this time of transition and I'm not really sure what that looks like. However, in like if you go to my website, you'll see date pre covid dates with nothing new
that's gonna change. but I'm not sure exactly how and what that's going to change really. This past year has been really working in the horse journey and working on my. journey with my horses. to answer though, um, people can certainly email, go to my, they can subscribe, go on my website, discovery with horses.com, and there's a subscribe button. when I do have offerings, I'll go through that list and send folks that, I think that's probably the best way at this point. just to go that I could start giving you emails and phone numbers, but I think right now subscribe and then as it unfolds for me, I will let people know, but I am really in that place of [00:57:00] trying to figure that out.
Victoria: Yeah. Or
Laura: be open to figuring it out or. .
Victoria: Yeah, that's great. If that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so in the meantime, as if people subscribe, uh, to discovery with horses, they can be in the loop as your, your process unfolds, which is kind of exciting. It is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.
Laura: Yeah, I wanna have some conversations with the two of you too, so, right.
Victoria: very exciting times.
Josh: Well that's good for people to know cuz even though the, maybe the dates are old, you still are mm-hmm. , the, the subscribe blank and all that's still working, people can reach you through there. Yeah,
Laura: I'm, I'm still alive and in Hawkin, so. Yeah,
The Healing Power of Horses
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Victoria: what are the top three things that, you know, if you could only tell people three things about horses and why they're meaningful in terms of teaching people about themselves.
Okay. Yeah. What would it be? What would those three things be?
Laura: Okay. [00:58:00] Very simple. Number one, horses could make us feel really good.
Victoria: Yeah.
Laura: Really, really good. Okay. just being around a horse is good medicine. Just, just, just being, that's number one. the other thing is horses help empower us.
Gain confidence, help us with our self-esteem. help us get real with who we are. So, I, I can't think of a better, animal mm-hmm. that can, can help us with some of that harder stuff. and, you know, I think just, okay, and this is, this is hard because it's coming from my head. I mean,
Victoria: they're
Laura: wonderful, wonderful, wonderful animals.
And give, give yourself the gift of experience, the experience of being around a horse, even if you're terrified. That's okay. That's totally okay. They'll teach you something about yourself. I promise that.
Victoria: [00:59:00] Mm.
Laura: What that will be, there's a million different things that they will teach you. Okay. So, find a horse and, and, and just, even if it's sitting on the other side of the fence and listening to them chomping grass Right.
And really listen to that sound, it will slow your heart rate and make you feel better.
Victoria: Hmm. Right. That's, that's good. Those are really good ones, . So I wanna just riff on that a little bit for you. Mm-hmm.
Moments of Triumph and Joy
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Victoria: , what's one of your greatest triumphs or aha moments with your own horses or your personal horsemanship practice?
Laura: Oh, I know. Such a good question. Um,
There's so many, there's so many. I don't know if I can, I mean, okay. Ask the question one more time cuz I, my head just went to so many different places.
Victoria: [01:00:00] what's an aha or a triumph that you've experienced with horses in your own personal horsemanship practice?
Okay,
Laura: so, okay, so there, so to answer that question, I gotta divide it in two. Okay. One is on the back of a horse and one is not on the back of a horse. Okay. Um, one of the biggest aha moments for me about. letting go and experiencing true joy, like stepping into my most uncomfortable place and then feeling so fully alive was a Gallup.
I had in Mongolia. Mm-hmm. And it was this Gallup on this horse's letting go and letting this horse be fully into hi himself. Like he was fast as the wind and I was terrified to really let go. But I did. And that was a moment when I got to the other side. That's another burst in, into crying moment.
And the [01:01:00] Mongolian horseman who was next to me was horrified cuz he thought I was so upset. And I was really just in sheer joy of that moment of letting go and experiencing. The raw energy of a horse like that. So there was Yes. Many that, so, right. Um, wow. . Yes. Yeah. And I had it and I had it in Patagonia.
so many like, were like, whoa. so then not being on the horse, you know, on, in the saddle, so many aha moments of healing like, like as I described earlier, drop being dropped to my knees with grief and looking up and having the horse's head right on top. This marere just holding like the crown in space for me.
Victoria: Like
Laura: that was a, that was a moment of healing for me like no other. And what led up to that was pretty. . So, and honestly so many moments on my horse journey, you know, [01:02:00] with Bodhi, like mm-hmm. connecting with him, in ways of that I haven't in the 20 years I've owned him.
Victoria: Wow.
Laura: So just some really beautiful you know, things I've learned through, you know, through your program and being a participant and, it's always amazing to me how much we just keep on learning and what keeps unfolding.
And so there were, there were moments with Bode this past year where our connection just so deepened in such a beautiful way.
Victoria: yeah. Yes. So good. It's
Laura: hard to, it's hard to put words to that, you know, to that question. again, it's like where I go is into this deeply feeling place and it's, I struggle to find the words to really describe it, but I can feel it.
Victoria: Right. So Yeah. And we were talking to, our friend Jacob who is a, apprentice at Barbie or farms and one the other day, and one of the things that we were talking about is the horsemanship that they [01:03:00] practice and that he's learning there at Barbie Farms. The idea is that they're just trying to help, the horse express themselves.
And it's that expression that is, Almost transcendent then for the human involved in the interaction. And that's what I hear you saying
Laura: and that's really cool. I like how you said it. Yeah. Yeah. Letting the horse be Yes. In their full of who they are and getting to experience them in their best selves, in their happiest, most joyful self.
That's it. And yeah, that is, that is like, that's sheer joy right there. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's, that's like a gift to witness anybody, you know, anything. Right. To be in their fullest best self. that's beautiful. I love what he, how he said that. That's cool.
Victoria: Yeah. Well that's basically what you were saying. And, and again, that just goes back [01:04:00] to I think when we are able to witness or, or be in the space of the truth, Yeah.
And that's what that sounds like to me. And I, and I, yeah. I can't come up with a better word for it yet. I'm gonna keep, but that's,
Laura: yeah, that's good. You, you're, I think you're definitely tapping on it. Yeah. Yeah. What is the be the truth? You know? The real truth, no. Mm-hmm. , the unfiltered nothing. Corroding nothing on top of a truth.
Yeah.
Victoria: Yeah.
Laura: That's cool. I like that.
Victoria: So if, you know, there's so many things to be feeling gratitude for. I know.
Gratitude and Final Thoughts
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Victoria: what's something that you feel gratitude for right now, this moment, these days? if you could distill some gratitude for us, what would that be?
Laura: Yeah, I mean, there are so many things, you know, but I, but I just read a quote, yesterday, thinking about my. Very recent trip to Patagonia that's very fresh in my heart. And it was something about [01:05:00] like to feel, when you step out of your comfort zone, it's when you feel most fully alive.
And so I feel very grateful that I've had this opportunity recently to tap into that fully alive feeling like the pure joy of being here. Like if I died in a minute, that's okay. Like I got to experience that fullness of life, in awe. and then just, you know, to come back and spend the holidays in my beautiful home with my husband and one daughter got home and the first thing I did when I got out of the car from the airport is I ran out to the barn and kissed both my horses and, getting to have these amazing horses in my life.
So I just, um, I, nothing is taken for granted. I'm, I'm so aware of what others don't have in the suffering right now in the world. And, uh, really aware of that. not complaining about [01:06:00] anything. There's no complaints, there's nothing.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. ,
Laura: in my experience of life and just grateful,
just trying to be my best self and do what I can to make this world a little better.
Victoria: Yeah. On that note, amazing, Laura. Yeah. What a what? A what? A gift of a conversation. Wow. Thank you.
Laura: Thanks for the opportunity, really. I mean, it's just really fun talking to you guys, and I feel grateful for both of you and what you're doing for the horses world, what you do for horses.
You know, you're an ambassador for horses and they're lucky that, they have U2 here on our planet and helping us be the best we can be for our horses so they can be in their magnificence. So, you know, I'm grateful for the two of you and, and this opportunity. Yeah,
Victoria: yeah,
Laura: yeah. So
Josh: thank you, Laura.
Victoria: Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Yay. Means, means the world coming from you. So, so yeah, I think I'm gonna just [01:07:00] need to, to process this beautiful conversation for a bit now ,
Laura: me too. I think I'm gonna go out to the barn. and, and, and, and do a little grooming and connecting with my very muddy horses.
Oh, my ,
Josh: yes. Great.
Laura: Yeah.
Josh: Great. Yeah. We'll, we'll come back for part two and take this in a take. Sounds good. Take deeper in some direction. Yeah. Yeah.
Laura: Thank you. Bye. Have a great day. Bye bye, Laura. Love you. Bye bye. Love you too. Bye-bye.
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