Tara Podcast 1
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[00:00:00]
Introduction to Aloha Ma and Self-Reflective Love
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tara: a dear friend of mine, Keoni Hanalei.
He's a Hawaiian man. We became dear friends. . he talks about something called Aloha Ma, which is self reflective love. when I learned what that was, I was like, Oh, that's the key. And it's like fierce self love, fierce self care to really give that to yourself and that you deserve that.
And I was in such a severe state of being so sick. It was like. Okay, at all costs, I need to give that to myself it's not selfish, we think of like caring for ourselves is selfish, another friend of mine calls it selfful. It's selfful. Like how can you care for others if you're not caring for yourself?
I had to really take that thread of like, okay. What do I need to heal? Which relationships do I need to shift
Meet Our Guest: Tara Coyote
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This is one of the most incredible interviews we've ever had the honor of doing. Terra Coyote is a. Fascinating, wonderful human being.
We talk a lot about the healing power of horses, her own journey of healing, which you just got to hear to believe we go into authentic presence, love, [00:01:00] overcoming adversity, personal growth and resilience. Grief is an expression of love, the healing power of ritual self care and I, I hope you get as much from hearing this episode as we did interviewing her. It was really a special time. I can't wait to share it.
Welcome to the herd is calling podcast. This is where we break free from conventional norms to explore the art, science, and wonder of the horse human connection. I'm Josh Williams. And together with my wife, Victoria, we're your hosts. Our mission is to inspire. you to improve the lives of horses.
Subscribe to The Herd is calling on Substack for behind the scenes stories and unique content. Now let's get to the episode.
Josh: Welcome to the Herd is Calling podcast. Today, we are so honored to have a very special guest [00:02:00] tuning in all the way from Kauai welcome Tara Coyote to the podcast. I'm going to read your bio so everybody can get to know you a little better.
First Tara Coyote is a life coach, equine facilitated learning instructor, grief facilitator. Stage four, breast cancer, thriver and bestselling author of grace, grit, and Gratitude, A Cancer Thriver's journey from hospice to full recovery with the healing power of horses and her latest children's book, Comanche The Wild Mustang.
Tara has been sharing her journey with cancer for almost seven years through her various social media pages. She aims to find joy in adversity, even with her dance with cancer She is the founder of Wind Horse Sanctuary in Kauai, Hawaii, and a certified EponaQuest equine facilitated learning instructor, life coach, Workshop leader, writer, and dancer. Tara is grateful to be alive and lives with two horses, one dog, and a [00:03:00] cat on her beloved tropical island.
Yay,
victoria: Tara! Thank you for being here.
tara: Aloha, thank you for having
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Daily Life and Healing Journey
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victoria: Tell us about your life, your horse life these days, including a snapshot of a typical day for you, with your horses, without your horses, just what's, what's a day like?
tara: That's a great question. So, like, you both know, and many of your listeners, who I assume are horse people, my life revolves around the care and feeding of two horses. I feed them three times a day. Scoop poop daily. I'm so grateful to care for these two beloved boys. I have, it really helps keep me grounded and sane and healthy and grateful.
I wake up, I do my own little health routine. breakfast. I care for my animals. I'll write. I'm currently in the process of writing a few new books. ~Um, ~I'll have various appointments. I'll have appointments with clients. I do the equine facilitate learning work. So that can be with the horses.
I do [00:04:00] coaching via Zoom I work with a lot of cancer patients and just People who are wanting guidance., one of my side things I love to do, that's been a great joy in this last year is wearing a mermaid tail and swimming with my tail It's been a very healing thing for me, because in the last two years, both of my parents have died very tragically. So mermaiding has been a great healing thing for me. And then, again, write some more, see clients, whatever it may be. It's different for each day. And then in the evening, feed the horses. the care and feeding of animals and tending to land.
As you both know, it's a very sacred thing. So it's a good life. I live in an off the grid yurt. You can see the yurt ceiling here totally solar powered on land that my great grandfather bought about 100 years ago.
So very, very grateful to be here in Hawaii. It's a beautiful life.
Tara's Connection with Horses
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victoria: I want to circle back to so much of what you were just talking about in your daily life, but I want to go back a little bit farther than that. And just ask you, why were you first drawn to [00:05:00] horses? What was it about horses? was it a moment?
It was an experience. Was it a slow burn? what was that like for you to, Discover that horses needed to be in
tara: your life. Yes. Well, I was a horse crazy young girl. and I begged my parents for a horse to no avail. which was a shame because if I had a horse, I probably would have been a less troublesome teenager.
I totally mean that. I, I would pretend my younger brother was a horse and I would lead him around with a little. Halter. I used to spend summers in New Hampshire with my cousins and they had horses. So I was very fortunate to be with them because my parents would lead safaris around the world. I grew up in Northern California.
so I had a lot of horse exposure for my summers in New Hampshire, which was beautiful. By the time puberty hit, I forgot about horses. And of course, I was very interested in boys, what happens to many young girls. And then when I was about 39 or 40, a very traumatic incident happened with my husband, my then husband, we're not together now.
And it [00:06:00] led me to. Bring horses back in my life again. I read Linda Cohenough's book, The Tao of Equus, and that sparked my memory of my love of horses, and I was in a very, very dark, depressed period, and I just felt intuitively that it was important to spend time with the horses, and I thought I was a little bit crazy.
It made no relevance whatsoever, but I was in such a dark space. I thought, okay, well my Guides and my intuitional sense is telling me to be with horses. So I need to listen. So I was living in Marin County, Northern California at the time. And I found a woman who worked with horses in a therapeutic manner.
And I had I think two sessions with her that completely blew me away with how healing it was. It was just like those two sessions. Maybe six months of therapy. And I realized there is something here. And then I remembered my love of horses. And then I decided a few months after that to take a workshop with one of, um, Linda's teachers, Shelly [00:07:00] Rosenberg.
And that was so powerful and transformational. And then I ended up doing one with Linda a few months later. And then I realized. There's something really powerful for me here. So I had a Pilates studio at the time, a very successful Pilates studio, and I realized that I wanted to be with horses, whatever I needed to do.
'cause I was in such a dark period. everything was like, you need to be with horses. So I shifted my life over a period of few years. I sold my Pilates studio and equipment, and I got my first horse, Comanche, who's. now famous and has a book about him, Comanche the Wild Mustang. You can read about Comanche's story there.
it was a calling really, as it is for a lot of people who are drawn to be with horses later in life.
The Healing Power of Horses
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victoria: once you were on that path, How did you end up to where you are now with horses? Like, and I know that's like, whoa, that's probably like, we could spend a few hours and a few days and,~ um,~ probably some meals But how'd you end up where you are now, maybe just like the short
tara: version. Well, I [00:08:00] ended up, as I said, I, I became trained with Linda as an equine facilitated learning instructor to do her work. I eventually. I bought a ranch in Nevada City, Grass Valley area um, over time had four horses and I led workshops there for many years, grief rituals with horses, which is something I developed in private sessions.
It was a beautiful spot and people come stay there. During the course of that time, my best friend of 19 years died young from acute myeloid leukemia, which led me to develop the grief rituals, which is a whole nother story, but that is a relevant part of my story.
Tara's Cancer Journey and Resilience
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tara: So I thought I'd add I was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer in September 2016, which was almost exactly a year after my best friend died. Um, and I decided to treat it exclusively naturally. Um, I was terrified of standard methods of treatment. Because I'd been with my best friend for months and months and months at the hospital, and I had a lot of trauma around her death.
And so I did treat it naturally for a [00:09:00] few years, and then a very stressful incident occurred, and I had to sell my ranch, which was horrible because I'd worked so hard to create it. It was a beautiful place. And it was about a year of pretty intense stress. And during that time, the cancer spread throughout my body, went from my breast to my lungs, my liver, my spine, my adrenal gland.
Um, All over my bones, and I was in pretty bad shape in the fall of 2018, and in the process before I sold my place, I realized I want to come back home to Kauai, Hawaii, where my dad is from, I already had this beautiful yurt I can move into, and um, I did that, I moved back home in ~uh, ~Kauai, The winter of 2019, by the winter, early spring of 2019, I was in really bad shape.
I was recommended to hospice with cancer throughout my body. I was coughing so intensely. I had to be on oxygen all the time because there was so much cancer in my lungs. I [00:10:00] could not. sit up to sleep at night because I'd be coughing and gagging in my sleep. I was walking with a left cane cause my left hip was breaking.
um, I knew I was dying. It was clear. I was losing weight rapidly. I was in pain constantly from the pain of my bones. The very kind doctors here in Hawaii said, well, you have a choice if you try chemo, that might change your life. So I decided to face my fear and I ended up doing nine months of chemo.
During that time, I almost died a few times. I had a, uh, I broke my left hip and I had to have emergency double hip surgery and learned to walk again. And,~ um,~ anyways, it was very difficult. And my book, Grace, Grit and Gratitude came out of that. experience. I talk about all in my book here about the healing power forces, of course.
And, uh, by February 2020, I finished treatment with remarkable results. There was still cancer in my body, but it shrunk dramatically. Just to conclude my cancer journey. It's been years and years and years, obviously, since that time. And just,~ uh,~ quite recently in the fall of [00:11:00] 2020, I was told I was of disease, which for somebody like me with widespread cancer, I never thought I'd hear those words.
So I'm just so incredibly grateful to be alive. So here I am now years later, and I've resumed the horsework that I love so much and written a few books. you know, due to the pandemic, there was a lot of. Inward time as there was everywhere, but I'm here on an island. So there was even more inward time Because there was really no place to go.
um, yeah, it's been quite a journey So that in a nutshell is the how and why of how i'm here and I have two beautiful horses right outside my door
victoria: you for putting that in a nutshell. I know that's not easy because I actually um just finished your book and There were so many moments where I was just like thinking to myself, or I'd stop, I'd have to push pause because I was listening to it,~ um,~ your book, and I just like could not believe what you were dealing with.
Like, I could imagine either the physical pain that you were describing, the [00:12:00] emotional distress, just the stress. There were so many moments where I was like, what next for this woman? Like, what is she going to have placed in front of her next? And you just kept approaching it and taking it on and moving through it.
And it was really astonishing. I just want to thank you for sharing your story because it reminded me, uh, of what we're capable of, of surviving and how we're able to actually thrive while we're surviving and, and that also it Thank you. It doesn't, it's not all rainbows and butterflies. Like there was a lot of really terrible moments for you.
And,, it's just, it's interesting to hear you encapsulate that all in just a very quick synopsis, but after reading your book and I highly recommend, you know, take a listen folks because, um, it's quite a story.
tara: Thank you so much. Yeah. It's been, my [00:13:00] life has been like that.
Grief and Personal Growth
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tara: Um, I didn't share this, but both of my parents passed in the last year and a half, two years.
So it's just been one thing after another. And I think of it like a hardship because there's been one friend dying after another and my own almost dying and this and that. I'm like, okay. This is shining the diamond of my soul. Every hard instance is making me grow. Because like diamonds, they're birthed under great pressure.
So, I refer to that when another hard thing comes my way. Because otherwise, it's like I've just become the victim. I don't want to be the victim. I continually strive to rise above adversity and on a side note, as this is a horse podcast, my horses constantly help just by being there, you know, just by feeding them, just by them living on the same property, like they're constantly holding me and helping me work through whatever stuck emotions I have.
So I just like to bring that up because. Horses are the topic.
victoria: [00:14:00] Yeah. On that note, out of all these formidable and formative moments that you were
tara: living
victoria: through, how did the horses help you? In what ways, like, can you describe some of the, some of the actual moments or specific things that the horses offered you to help you in those really hard
tara: days?
Definitely. I mean, there's so many stories about that. Um, I'll share one that's particularly powerful that happened at the very beginning of my diagnosis. So when you're diagnosed with cancer, which was almost seven years ago for me now, which is quite incredible. your brain is spinning and it's the first time you're really looking at your mortality.
And I was 46 when I was diagnosed. So, you know, and I was in my mind, super healthy, ate organic and it just Blue, my mind that I was dealing with a stage three breast cancer diagnosis and also when you're first diagnosed, you're just pummeled with so many pieces of advice from family and friends and social media because they don't know how to [00:15:00] help.
So they tell you very rudimentary things like take lemon essential oil to drink your own urine to heal you. And you know, all these things that. coming from a helpful place, but are quite overwhelming. And then also, you know, the doctor's advice, family's opinions, da da da da da. And so it was within two weeks of my diagnosis.
And I had a beautiful halfling or mare named Daisy at the time, gorgeous with gold main and, you know, stocky, strong body. And she came up to me and she. Rested her large head on my left shoulder and the tumor was in my left breast here and then she just rested her head there and of course it kind of pushed me down and then she ended up running her head up and down the left side of my body almost like to take away the pain and the worry and let me know it'd be okay After she did that, I put my arms around her thick, beautiful mane and just leaned into her and sobbed because I was so scared.
um, she never did that before to me, never displayed that sort of affection. And I knew that she was just, she was right there saying, Hey, we've got you. It's okay. there's other [00:16:00] stories too, where fast forward years later, I was in the middle of treatment here in Kauai and Feeling terrible and not that great.
And I came home from treatment one time. And, um, the horses at that point, cause I couldn't tend to them. Like I could barely walk. I was walking with a cane. And so they were on a piece of pasture adjacent to my land. There were, it was basically like 80 acres they were free on. So I didn't see them that much.
Um, they lived. very wild, free life. um, I came home from treatment. I was just feeling really overwhelmed and bad physically, and they were waiting for me outside, like on the other side of the gate, just standing there like, Hey, we're here. We understand you're going through it. And we're here, you know, out there.
Yeah. All of 80 acres, they were there waiting for me. And that was quite significant for me to just know they are here and just to speak to the power of healing because non horse people have a hard time understanding this and it's hard to share it. But now that I'm doing well and I'm able to function and move and everything's great.
[00:17:00] Like they're just so there for me holding space. I'm still going through a lot of grief over the death of my parents. And if I'm start crying cause I'm feeling sad or You know, whatever I'm feeling, they're just right there, and they stand there in front of me, just ,solidly in their Zen space just being
present so they
victoria: just have so much awareness and wisdom and love to give that particular instance, but in your book, you talk about coming home from your first, chemo treatment from the hospital , it was pretty terrible, the whole thing. I and what that meant to you to see them there and how amazing that was.
~Um, ~and I really felt
tara: that. Yep. No, it was such a beautiful healing just to know that they had my back and just, yeah, I attribute a lot of why I'm doing well to them actually, because I know they're helping to transmute my energy. And it's also very [00:18:00] interesting too. How animals absorb what we humans are going through, because Blue, my paint horse, he's got squamous cell carcinoma, like a tumor on the outside of his eyelid.
He's had it for Three and a half years now and he's doing well too. I mean, it's, it's there and there's nothing really I can do about it. And there's no vet on Island now to help. So it's a little tricky, tricky situation, but you know, I know that they're helping me physically and I tell them too, I'm like, please do not take on my stuff.
Like I want you to be healthy. So, In us being so close, there is that transference, if you would call it that, that happens.
victoria: Yeah, I know, and this is a little bit of an aside, but I recently had a somatic
tara: therapy session
victoria: with a therapist with my horse, and that was one of the many illuminating things that came out of it was like how much.
My horse holds for me how much he takes on for [00:19:00] me. and when I'm able to notice that and, and let it go and, and, and maybe soften, boy, that's just like such a relief for him, he was having all these big reliefs. I'm just continually learning about this stuff. It's like this stuff that you kind of like know in your gut, but.
the more I learn, the more it's. affirmed, in ways it's like, I kind of always knew this since, since I've been hanging out with horses, but the more I am exposed and working with professionals and people who really know a lot about this stuff or people doing research or people that are just been in it in their own life experience, it's like, okay, there's something to this with these horses and their healing capacities.
tara: So true. And I think all animals too. I mean, similarly, my beautiful dog, beautiful Aussie shepherd named Zaria with ice blue eyes. So I have two, like, I have a left hip replacement, titanium in my left hip. My right side has a rod from my knee to my hip because I had a [00:20:00] femur in my, I mean, a hole in my femur.
So they did that to prevent my right hip from breaking. And my dog has the same thing, equivalent dog wise. She's got two, I mean, it's. It's the equivalent of a hip, but for her, it's knee. So she's got two titanium hips or knees. So it's, it's like, okay, yeah, they're, they're taking it on. And so, yeah, they're all very aware and present and holding space for us cats too.
victoria: We're all connected.
Equine Therapy and Grief Rituals
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Josh: I wonder Tara, if you could back up to your first experience with equine, therapy, working with Linda Cohen off and her team. ~Uh, ~we love her books and her work. It's so inspiring. You know, Victoria had read her books years ago and they've been sitting around the house and we went on our own and A bit of a journey in the last few years.
And I just picked it back up a few months ago and I was just, my mind was blowing like every paragraph, you know? I would love to hear more about your experience with that. But I [00:21:00] wonder, if you don't mind sharing, of course, like what, was it about that first session? That was so powerful and so healing because at that point you're really coming at it with a beginner's mind.
tara: Yes, that's a great question. I think with that first session I was in such a painful place. ~Um, ~I was so depressed like I was very close to thinking about suicide too just to share how raw I felt which is not a normal thing for me. So I was in a really really bad place. That's like help me whatever I need, please just Give me some sense of hope and spending time with that equine therapist with the horse.
It was a mirror of where I was at. I can't remember the specifics, but I remember it was a female horse and something about the energetics of what she gave out to me helped me understand that I wasn't alone in feeling just this. Tremendous grief and trauma of what I had gone through. just to share in brief, cause I get vulnerable times just to, just to share the level vulnerability I was at.
[00:22:00] I,~ um,~ had a child when I was young. I was a single mom. I was 22 when I had my son and I'd always dreamed about having another child. And I married this musician, man. We had a great life. I knew he was a great dad cause he had. already other kids. I had married him and I had hope of having another child with him.
And there was a certain point where he said, I actually do not want to have another child with him. And I don't fault him at all. Like it was both of us involved. I'm not putting any blame on him. Like this was our process together. And then after that, I found out that I was infertile and I was about 40 at the time.
So I was just crushed because here I had married this. gorgeous man that I thought I'd have another child with and then I found I was infertile. It was like that was a crushing dream of always having another child. So I was at such a hard place because for women, if you're wanting that and you can't have it, even though I already had another, you know, a son previously, it was, it was a hard thing to grok.
So I was in such a dark place of just [00:23:00] needing something to hold on to. It brings up a lot of emotions talking about this actually. So spending time with that female horse, just It made me feel seen and witnessed and that there was a reason to live and,~ um,~ it was like she understood that the dark, dark place I was in.
thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And, and
victoria: , that resonates for me too. So thank you for sharing. Again, it's just the more we talk about this stuff, the more it's like, yes, yes, I, I, yes.
tara: Exactly. And I actually never really share that story publicly.
It's in my book. I open up for that story in my book, but. I very rarely share it in a podcast. So anyways, thank you. I'm wide open now.
So yeah, just continuing on with that. ~Uh, ~when I was led to work with Linda, which was about I think four or five months after that incident, when I was just inspired, like being with that horse gave me a [00:24:00] thread of something to hold on to.
And I needed it because I was about a year being heavily depressed. But when I went and spent time with Linda, it was such an eye opening experience,~ um,~ to understand the message behind grief. ~Um, ~And I do the grief rituals with horses, and I'm very passionate about demystifying grief because we live in a very grief illiterate culture where we're told to just stuff our grief.
But I just want to share this in relation to my story and why that experience with my husband was so painful is that, Linda. It created the emotional message chart with Carla McLaren and each emotion has a message behind it and something you do to work with it. ~Um, ~it's in her book, the power of the herd, if anybody's interested in checking it out.
But the message behind grief is that there's been a loss beyond your control, something you did not decide you did not choose. Whereas the message behind sadness is you are choosing to leave a job or relationship. There's an empowered sense with it. But with grief. There's [00:25:00] no choice. It's like something happens to you.
You're, you lose a job, you know, your home is destroyed by fire. Somebody dies. ~Um, ~and so that's when I realized that after being with her, I realized, oh, that's why this situation with my husband is so painful because I did not choose this. This happened to me. What you're supposed to do to help work with the emotion of grief is to memorialize it, to do a ritual, to honor whatever it is you've lost, which is why I was drawn to do the grief rituals with horses, to really commemorate whatever it is people are grieving.
And then if you don't tend to it, the emotion of grief will turn into depression, anger, each emotion, if not attended to can become intensified. So when I understood that after being with Linda, I realized, Oh, that's why I've been so devastated this last year and a half.
it's so important and empowering to realize these things to move forward with one's life. Yeah. Yeah.
victoria: I just thought of a quote and I don't, I'm not even sure where I [00:26:00] read this or where I saw this, but something like,~ um,~ grief is letting go of what could never have been, you know, and that's really hard to do, but just that awareness that, yeah, that's just like, you gotta let it go.
I think it's It's huge. And we don't, I mean, I want to talk about your, perspective,~ um,~ on death. You're a death doula. I want to talk about your, grief rituals. you said death is a beautiful thing. Can you share with us, a little bit more about that perspective? And, how you got there.
tara: Yes, sure. ~Um, ~yeah, we live in a death and grief phobic culture where, you know, I've traveled to Bali, I've traveled to India and seen burning bodies go down the Ganges and burning bodies and,~ um,~ Bali. So these cultures, they really embrace death and know it's part of life. Whereas here in Western civilization, you know, older people go to old folks home, we're removed from death.
So we don't really understand it. Whereas it's [00:27:00] ironic because we're all going to die, right? Like nobody gets out alive, as Jim Morrison said. I've been exposed to extreme amount of death in the last eight years. My best friend, Deb died, another dear. family, friend and close friend died young from cancer, you know, very soon after Deb did,~ um,~ since I've been in the cancer world, I've known so many people have died young.
It's been tragic. My parents just died. ~Um, ~so I've just been exposed to extreme, extreme amounts, which has made me realize through being with so many people dying that it's a beautiful thing. ~Um, ~it's not easy by any means, but if you've ever been to a birth, birth and death are very similar, that energetic of somebody coming into the world and then somebody leaving the world.
~Um, ~and it's like, I think, you know, we're all going to die, so why not see the beauty in it? There's a certain grace in dying when, somebody is accepting of it. You know, it's really, it's hard to put into words, but it's like letting that transition happen to go from one realm to another. And,~ um,~ I think through being honored [00:28:00] to be around so many deaths, I've come to see the beauty of it.
And then also I have a unique perspective because I've come close to dying. You know, I had a death midwife. ready for me. I was preparing all my paperwork. So I had to come to a certain acceptance of it. and one thing I learned from Deb's death, my best friend's death is like, in order to truly live fully, you need to embrace death fully.
And once I realized that from being around her, it's like, Oh my gosh. I've been sort of denying this whole realization of my own death whenever I will die. Hopefully I'll live a long life. I hope so. But,~ um,~ it was a beautiful blessing to be with her when she was dying. It was horribly painful and I miss her dearly to this day, but it really helped me come to peace with that element of death and,~ um,~ have a sense of courageousness around it rather than this immobilizing paralyzing fear that we're taught to have.
Does that explain it somewhat? Yeah, it's beautiful.
Josh: I just got so many [00:29:00] chills,~ um,~ with all the stuff you're saying. I've got some questions about grief for you of my own unresolved, complicated history with that topic.
So I am really interested in your work. , like if you've lost somebody or something, our,~ um,~ horse died,~ uh,~ about a year ago and it was really crushing to us. And when I still think about it, it makes me really sad. And I just wonder, like, you know, is that, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that, is that because of something that's unresolved.
In your experience or like, what is that? Sometimes I just wonder like, what is like, it just surprises me sometimes. I thought I, I thought I dealt with this. I thought I processed, I thought it was okay, but I still feel this. Well, this deep, you know, it just feels like this bottomless ocean of emotion around it, and I guess I'm just curious if you could provide any perspective.
~Uh, ~I've never talked to anybody that's professionally, you know, [00:30:00] works with grief. So,
tara: yeah, of course. First of all, I just want to say, I'm sorry about that. I've never lost a horse and I kind of dread that moment. So my heart goes out to you both. Cause yeah, that's, that's hard. I can only imagine I've, I've lost dogs, but luckily my horses are still here, but,~ um,~ yeah, I can say a few things There is a quote that the amount of grief felt is equal to the love experience.
So the fact that you're feeling great grief means that you love this horse deeply and what a beautiful, beautiful thing that is. ~Um, ~I know I'm grieving my parents intensely now, my dad, especially because he died very fast and subtly and,~ um,~ I had time to grieve my mom because she was sick for a long time, but my dad just died fast and suddenly, and I was very close to him.
So, you know, I still bawled about that last night and it's been about a year and a half. So that's the thing with grief. I mean, there's one thing I pass out in my grief rituals is this. I'm happy to send it [00:31:00] to you if you want to put it in the show here, but there's this picture of,~ um,~ how we're taught that grief is a linear process.
I think Elizabeth Kubler Ross developed this of like, it's like realization. It's this whole chart of it goes up and around of like acceptance, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, with the idea that you're over it. Like at a certain point you're over it. And then next to that chart, there's actually a picture of all these knots.
It's like tangled. And I. Pass this around to people to let them know like grief is like these knots, you know, you think you're over it and then boom an anniversary comes or a smell or something to remind you of your horse, your friend, your father, and then you're back in it again. And,~ um,~ There's really no rhyme and reason to it.
It can hit you at any point. I mean, as time goes on, it gets easier. It's, it's hard. I mean, it's like, you open up your heart to this beautiful horse, and of course you miss his presence, and ~um, ~So I think, just to really acknowledge the presence of grief, [00:32:00] that grief Grief is raw. Grief is indication of great love.
Grief is love. I mean, we're human and we're taught to shut down our hearts, but grief is an opportunity to really open up your hearts. I love the quote,~ um,~ by Leonard Cohen. It's,~ uh,~ there's a crack in everything and that's how the light comes in. It's like these cracks in our heart allow light in and you cannot escape the grieving process because it's a process.
Everything changes and passes and everybody and everything and every creature dies. So yeah, that's what I can say at the moment. I can keep going, but does that resonate?
Josh: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Cause yeah, the, the cracking, the knots of course is very good visual, but the cracking too, cause there is like a, like a beauty in it.
You know, it's so painful, like I wouldn't choose it, but it is like so beautiful. So like the letting the light in through the [00:33:00] cracks. Yeah, that really resonates. And, and I'm so sorry to hear about your parents too.
tara: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I think that, you know, the fact that we do live in a grief phobic culture and these days there's so many things happening that are just cataclysmic, like what just happened Maui,~ um,~ almost a month ago.
And,~ um,~ It's just, it's a crazy time to be alive, and I feel like it's so important for us all individually and as a collective to acknowledge these griefs, which is why grief rituals are so important, because we have an accumulation of grief. The more we hold on to it, the more we're just stifled. There's also a comment is from West Africa, which is where these grief rituals originated from when they first came to the United States is that if you can cry every day, you can laugh every day.
So I think about it as. You know, to be able to access joy, you need to go into that grief and that pain and grieve the loss of those that you have lost.
victoria: Yeah. you. That's so beautiful. I [00:34:00] just keep thinking about the word love connected to grief and that's just immensely comforting. And also hard,
tara: which most things, I mean,
victoria: that's the paradox of life, right?
tara: Exactly. A lot of the things that grow us are challenging.
victoria: you give us a small glimpse of an equine facilitated grief ritual? Perhaps, ~um. ~ Maybe a small glimpse into the ritual that you recently facilitated for the people of Lahaina.
tara: Sure. Um, what I did for the Maui event, it was a, a bridged version of what I usually do.
I usually do like an eight hour all day grief ritual. ~Um, ~this one I did recently, it was just three hours. ~Um, ~but just, I'll just give you a brief snapshot of what I choose to do. And I do,~ uh,~ train horse. People work with horses to do this work too if anybody's interested because I feel like this work needs to get out there So if anybody's interested I can work on zoom with people So what I [00:35:00] do is I combine Linda's work what I learned from Epona quest with some grief work that I learned From Francis Weller.
He wrote the wild edge of sorrow Amazing man with an amazing book who leads grief rituals I will start out with like a body scan, helping people tune into their body. I will have them do a mandala, the sacred art act of drawing to help them tune into their unconscious self. ~Um, ~we will build an altar and people bring whatever it is they're grieving, whether it's a picture of their horse, whether it's like for me, it's my parents right now.
~Um, ~you know, anything for the Lahaina one, it was things to represent Maui. we build that altar together to acknowledge what it is we're grieving. ~Um, ~and then we'll spend time with the horses. There's an exercise Linda does called Meet the Herd, which is spending time with the horses, just tuning into your body and listening to the sensation and connecting with them.
I do that after the body scan, after the people tune into their bodies, because [00:36:00] most of us,~ uh,~ are taught to really suppress. Whatever pain we're feeling in our bodies. ~Uh, ~let's see, I will do,~ uh,~ the crux of the grief rituals called the stone ritual, which is something I got from Francis Willer's book, which is where we have a big bowl of stones and,~ um,~ people take turn popcorn style, taking a stone and naming their grief.
Like a stone can be, this represents climate change and what's happening with the environment. And they'll take that stone and they'll put it in a bowl of water on the altar. And I usually take about an hour, hour and a half to do this, maybe sometimes two hours. And that's like really the heart of the ritual where people can get angry or cry and really let out their griefs.
And it's amazing in that process, you really realize how grief is a collective experience and we all share similar grief. So it helps the grievers know they aren't alone because grief is a very,~ uh,~ experience. You can feel very isolated when you're going through grief. And then once that ritual is done, we [00:37:00] will take that bowl of water and pull it onto the earth, symbolizing putting the grief back into the earth and then putting the stones back in the earth or body of water.
~Um, ~and then the last thing I would do for my eight hour event would be a clear and release ceremony, which is where we're walking around. In,~ um,~ clockwise and semi,~ uh,~ counterclockwise circles, you know, over a period of 40 minutes or so following a horse,~ um,~ saying the things we want to let go of, and then the things we want to call back in.
So it's this process of like letting go of patterns and ways of being that do not serve and calling in what we want. So by the end of the day, people generally feel,~ um,~ acknowledged for their grief. They feel a sense of being heard. Connected to community and,~ um,~ because we're so taught to stuff our grief, you know, there's a sense of, Oh, your friend just died.
It's been four months. Aren't you better when it's a process? Like you said, you feel it. So it's an opportunity to come together. And [00:38:00] it's been pretty amazing. The transformation that has occurred and,~ um,~ Like I said, I, I really recommend even just hearing what I shared here, check out Francis Weller's book and check out the Stone Ritual.
Like that's something you can do on your own by yourself or with your family or friends. Like it's very important to get out these griefs, especially in this day and age. I cannot emphasize that enough. So that's it in a nutshell.
victoria: Yeah. And so how do you process or, or release the grief that you must absorb?
From some of the people that you guide through these rituals.
tara: That's actually a very brilliant tuned in question. I don't think I've ever been ever been asked that before in an interview So you're very yeah, you're very tuned in here. ~Um ~Yeah, that's something I've had to learn to do because yes in the process I've learned to express my grief because I allow myself to cry and speak about whatever whomever I'm grieving Because it's important for me to share my emotions, [00:39:00] too As a facilitator, but I don't let myself fall apart in the process because I'm holding space for others.
But,~ um,~ at the beginning when I did the grief rituals, when I started after my best friend died, I would do a technique that a shaman woman once said like, Oh, that's a shamanistic technique of taking other people's grief in and trying to transcend it in my body. ~Um, ~when I was diagnosed with Breast cancer, though, I realized that's not that healthy to let in other people's grief, and that's probably not serving me, especially as I'm trying to heal cancer.
So then I brought in this technique, which I very rarely share, but I'm happy to share here because maybe this technique will help others going through it, is that I imagine a big raven in the middle of the room, a big, black, beautiful raven. And I have a Raven on my arm here. It's a bit my totem. It represents like death and going to the other realms to me Ravens can go between the world.
So I imagine a big raven in the room with her wings open and [00:40:00] soaking in People's grief. So if I start feeling like whoa, this is getting too much I imagine a big raven wrapping her arms around whoever's grieving and holding her or him and absorbing it So that's my way of dealing with it and also the same regard if I start feeling heavy I'll imagine okay that Ravens there for me and I started doing that a year or two after doing grief rituals and that really helped me to not take it on personally because that it is a technique when you're holding space for others to not absorb others energy.
And then, of course, afterwards, I have to do something like get a massage or go out to nature and release it because it's, it's a lot of energy to hold and it's beautiful, but it's deep, you know, and you want to make sure that you're not taking it on. And for the horses too, because I know that's an issue with equine facilitated learning, like some criticisms.
People have is like, Oh, well, the horses are taking it on. So I make sure whatever I do and whatever they do that [00:41:00] they have time and space to diffuse the energy and You know, I would not do two grief rituals back to back for their own self care too. So I, I always think of them cause they're holding an immense amount of space as well.
victoria: I'm glad you mentioned that about the horses cause I think that's, that's just so important to name and, and talk about cause agreed. I think the horses do take on a lot for us and, and it's a valid critique or question to ask whenever we're talking about. Any kind of equine facilitated work, I think.
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tara: So tell
Wind Horse Sanctuary and Its Inhabitants
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victoria: us about Wind Horse Sanctuary and the horses that help you with your work there and live there and are part of your family there.
tara: Sure. Well, when I ran my retreat center in Northern California, I had four horses when I decided to move home to Kauai, you know, moving horses across the ocean is very difficult.
And I share that experience in Comanche, the wild Mustang. There's also a coloring book version if anyone's interested. But,~ um,~ I share their, their journey of going all across the ocean to Kauai. ~Um, ~So, yeah, I only brought Blue and Comanche here. ~Uh, ~Comanche is a Mustang Comanche the Wild Mustang. ~Uh, ~he was taken out of the wilderness when he was a year old, not by me.
There was a beautiful woman who took him out of the Reno, Nevada area, and [00:43:00] she trained him it's such a lovely manner. ~Um, ~I met him when he was 11,~ uh,~ when I was starting to do this work, and I just fell in love with him. He's super. Sturdy's a Spanish Mustang. ~Um, ~gorgeous soul, very wise, like an old, old soul and very mellow.
Meet the Horses: Comanche and Blue
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tara: He's like the solid one in the group who just holds space. ~Um, ~yeah. And,~ uh,~ so that's Comanche's kind of like the soulmate, my soulmate of horse. And then I have blue, who's a paint horse who is,~ uh,~ he's very different from Comanche. He's like the trickster, the troublemaker, the curious one, the friendly one.
He's like. If people come up to him, he's always like nibbling them and curious and doing funny, crazy antics. ~Um, ~yeah, so they're really a nice balance together. They, they hold space in a lovely way together. I do miss having more horses too though, because there's something about having a larger herd dynamic.
Equine Facilitated Learning: Balancing Needs
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tara: they're amazing and ~um, ~they hold space beautifully that a lot of times when I do the equine facilitated learning work [00:44:00] now, I'll have them together because they are so herd bound in a sense, Comanche is fine because he's so solid. He's fine to be without blue, but blue, if Comanche is far away, he gets nervous.
So it's like, I got to keep them together for a blue zone equilibrium. So I've learned ways to be with that just to honor both of their needs.
Yeah, I
Josh: wonder, can I connect it to the last question you guys were talking about? have you observed the horses? You know, discharging energy or similarly, do you have any really specific ways to help them after, maybe it's a workshop or a day of equine facilitated learning activities.
I'm just wondering what, if you've observed that, you know, outside of like the traditional kind of yawns and shakes and stuff. Yeah,
Post-Workshop Care for Horses
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tara: well, after the last grief ritual last weekend for the Maui event, I could tell blue was a little agitated. It wasn't over the top, but I could tell he had reached his fill.
And so I [00:45:00] just was very mindful with him. I like to let both of the boys out. I can close the front gate and they can run freely on three and a half acres. They have a smaller area they're on some of the time. So I like to let them free there so they can just be go where they want, sleep where they want, roll where they want.
~Um, ~so I'm always aware of giving them that space. So I think that really helps. ~Um, ~I think they have an innate way just to release on their own. ~Um, ~
The Healing Power of Horses
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tara: I also see them going into that deep horse Samadhi sense that I love where they'll just. It's almost like they're asleep, but not really. They're in between the worlds and I can tell that they're diffusing energy seen that and I think just having space just having space I think of whatever workshops I do or client sessions and I make sure it's not like I would never Do three in a row.
It's maybe like okay one one day one A few days later, just to give them room just to be [00:46:00] themselves, because I know they hold so much space. it's amazing. I had a client the other day and she was outside the round pen and she was 20 feet away from them, but I could tell they were already starting to hold space for her.
nothing was asked of them, but they just, boom, were there tuning into her like they do for me. And also too, to add my own journey, like, With my own health journey, I go through a monthly shots, hormone blocking shots. So a few days a month I'm knocked out and not feeling well. And I'm aware of them holding space for me too.
So I'm very aware of like the fact of they're holding space for me. They're holding space for others. So they need to have their spaciousness to come back to their balance.
Josh: Yeah, I, I, I agree a hundred percent just letting them. Just letting them be themselves is like probably the best thing, you know, we can ever do.
And, and also, you know, not at all to, you know, Minimize the importance of being aware of that. [00:47:00] But I would add to that that's part of life. Like we all hold space for our loved ones. You know, it's, it may be reframing it a little bit to not necessarily being like this traumatic event, you know, it's just like part of life.
Like they. They wouldn't do it if they weren't interested in like coherence amongst their herd, you know, so it's, I think it's innate in their nature, which is probably part of the, you know, one of the many parts of the healing power of horses. And,~ um,~ but yeah, I just think that's really fascinating to hear your experiences with that.
Yeah, I
tara: think, like you said, they just automatically do it. And I think some horses are more inclined to do it than others. ~Um, ~but yeah, they, these boys know their job really well. Seem to enjoy doing it. You know, it's like, they're kind of wanting that.
Yeah, well,
victoria: so relational, so they're just, I mean, that's, that's the way anymore. I'm just kind of blown away,~ uh,~ anytime I'm working with my horses, even just quote, you know, [00:48:00] Training them, trying, trying to work on just getting them to be just safe saddle horses, you know, ~um, ~ it's like become such a conversation.
It's become such like this relational dialogue. That's just so. and dynamic something about the equine guided learning work is it's like the vulnerability when we come into the horse's space with that, when we want to learn, when we're seeking, when we're asking questions, when we humans are, are Coming bear and letting the horse.
No, we don't have the answers. It just seems like that creates this magnet. The horses just come here. I am as soon as we get vulnerable. At least that's been my experience with myself with some of The retreats that I've been involved in some of the healing work that I've been involved in,~ um,~ even just the horsemanship instruction that I do when we get vulnerable, our horses seem to [00:49:00] really.
Show up and that's just so magical in a world where we've like been told and don't be vulnerable vulnerable is
tara: Yeah, I think that's so true what you said and then the fact that they reflect stuffed emotions like I've seen somebody Come up and be with my horses and it was clear they were stuffing a lot of anger and the horses would reflect that back in some way and sort of help evoke and pull those emotions out.
So, yeah, they're quite incredible in that way. Well said.
Self-Care and Healing Journeys
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Josh: on the human side of that, as, as a facilitator, somebody who's doing this work,~ uh,~ like you mentioned, getting a massage, taking some time to walk in the forest or, or in the jungle in your case,~ um,~ You know, just that topic of self care, that's so important.
Like I, I used to be a massage therapist and,~ uh,~ you know, so I have experience working very like one to one with people and,~ uh,~ in a very like direct way, you know? so I know this energy [00:50:00] transference is like a real thing and, you know, you spoke to it with the grief rituals and, and even as a cancer thriver.
being aware of that, like there were roles traditionally in some cultures,~ uh,~ where people would act as healers and they would actually, you know, intentionally take on a process like embody and, and express, but that's like such a specialized role in society. Very few people, even in, in some of these cultures that did that.
You know, there's a very small percentage of people that actually did that role. So I don't think that's like a role for all of us, even that are in the healing professions, like that's like another level almost that I don't think is healthy, you know, unless, unless we're called to do that or have those unique tools to process that.
tara: You
victoria: talked about self care a lot in your book and I, Just really appreciated where you went with that because I do think kind of just [00:51:00] piggybacking on what you were saying, Josh, there, there's a, it's almost been the, the term or the phrase is, has been commoditized to the point where it's like, you got to buy this thing or you got to go on this trip or you got to be doing this thing to like engage in self care.
And I just, you have this simple way of approaching it in terms of just like what it meant. In your book, and you kind of kept talking about it, you just talked about it a lot is just like this innate, almost human, right? So anyway, I'd love to hear you talk more about that. And I think that's what Josh was asking too.
tara: Sure. Yeah. ~Um, ~that's something I realized how important that is. Self care,~ um,~ at the beginning of the journey with cancer, but especially when I was not doing well, when I was, dying. ~Um, ~I realized, oh, wow, I really need to step up my self care. ~Um, ~I reached out to a dear friend of mine,~ uh,~ Keoni Hanalei.
He's a Hawaiian man. We became dear [00:52:00] friends. And,~ um,~ he has a remarkable cancer healing story to being referred to hospice and healing. But he talks about something called Aloha Ma, which is self reflective love. And so when I learned what that was, I was like, Oh, that's the key. And it's like fierce self love, fierce self care to really give that to yourself and that you deserve that.
And I was in such a severe state of being so sick. It was like. Okay, at all costs, I need to give that to myself and it's not selfish, you know, we think of like caring for ourselves is selfish, but another friend of mine calls it selfful. It's selfful. Like how can you care for others if you're not caring for yourself?
So I had to really take that thread of like, okay. What do I need to heal? Which relationships do I need to shift during that time when I was not well My partner and I have four years we split up which was very difficult But it ended up being a healthy thing because there was some unhealthy patterns between us it was Decisions [00:53:00] like that of who am I going to be around?
What am I going to choose to do? What brings me joy? Cause really it matters for all of us, whether you're journeying with cancer or not, to really give yourself that, that moment of joy, whether it's hanging out with your horse or reading a book or swimming in the ocean or walking in the forest. yeah, it has become kind of a cliche statement, but I think once you really go into the crux of it, like that's really what matters.
And,~ um,~ It's not about pushing others to the side. I mean, it can be depending on the circumstance, but it's really about learning, like, what do I need? Cause we're so taught, you know, especially as women to tend to others needs. I mean. I'm not a man, so I don't have that experience, but to really step into that fierce self care or aloha ma to prioritize yourself enough to give yourself joy to heal and to continue healing.
victoria: Yeah. I love that so much. Just like the self love. I mean, I was kind of taught that was selfish from a [00:54:00] very young age. And so it's been a little bit of a transformation to start realizing how, no, this is integral to living the life that I want to live to being the person I want to be.
I've got to. Integrate fierce. I love fear self love. I love that so much. it's about loving yourself. And again, it's just like, there's a part of me that's a little like, I don't even like the sound of that, you know, but it's so it's so true. I had a student just the other day, trying to
tara: rationalize
victoria: her journey with horses, first she was trying to figure out how to make it into some kind of career where she could make money. And then of course, she's got to do it in a way that it's like serving others and she's got to,~ um,~ you know, be volunteering at a horse thing.
So she's got to be doing this and that. And instead of just like Letting herself do horses because she loves doing horses because that's just part of her self care, her self love. there's so many things, worthiness tied into [00:55:00] that. And I love how, you introduced that in your book and talked about it here.
So thank you.
tara: Yeah, you're welcome. It's so important for all of us. Cause like you said, we are taught just to give and give and give. And especially, you know, for people going through breast cancer, the breasts represent the mother and we tend to be nurturers, you know, like I one of the main caretakers for my best friend for 22 months from diagnosis to death.
I mean, it was a beautiful experience. But it was like, my way of being was to put others before myself. So cancer was a big wake up call, be like, wait a second, what about me? So I advise everybody to step up their self care so you don't have to be diagnosed with cancer to learn that. You don't have to go through what I did.
We're good now.
Gratitude and Resilience
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victoria: Yeah, no, gratitude is a theme throughout your book. Obviously it's in the title I noticed when I was reading your book, when you came out of the hospital,~ um,~ in Kauai, you were just so full of gratitude. can you speak to that?
tara: Yeah, I think gratitude is immensely important. I think there's always something to be [00:56:00] grateful for, even the hardest situations. my hardest situation on my journey with cancer was when,~ um,~ I had broken my hip and I was stuck in bed and I couldn't walk.
I was reliant on everybody for Everything, even like, I need help getting to the bathroom, which was tremendously humbling. And I'm a very independent person of like, I can take care of worse by myself. I can move hay bales. So it was I had to really humble myself and, ~um. ~And then my partner and I, in four years, we split up two weeks after I broke my hip.
So that was extra hard. during that period,~ um,~ I wasn't living in my beautiful yurt because there was a mold outbreak. I was living someplace else. I was going through chemo. My mom was going through stage four cancer. I'd broken both, you know, Double hip surgery. So it was just one thing after another.
And it was almost hilarious how horrible it was. And I was just in bed and, you know, kind of feeling sorry for myself. And I'm like, wait a second, Tara, you can't go this route. Your body's not going to heal. And so one of my coping mechanisms is to find humor is [00:57:00] like, there's always something to laugh at.
So I was like, this is just ridiculously horrible. It's funny. So I was like. Okay, I need to find humor and I need to find gratitude. So that's what I was saying, there's always something to be grateful for. So I found gratitude in the fact that my dear cousin was taking care of me, that I had enough food, that my animals were okay,~ um,~ you know, that I had a roof over my head, even though it wasn't my house.
~Um, ~ when my therapist years ago taught me of like, even in the worst situations, you can find something to be grateful for, even if it's looking out the window and saying, wow, that's a beautiful tree, you know? So the power of gratitude really, really heals. It's switching your mind frame around from like a victim standpoint to poor me, all this stuff's happening, which, you know, it's part of the human experience to go there to, okay, yes, this is hard.
And there's still so much to be thankful for. ~Um, ~When I was going through the worst of my experience too, I have thought about, okay, there's people in the world who have it much harder than me. I'm getting treatment. I have enough food. I have vitamins. But then I thought of like [00:58:00] people and. A war torn country that, how terrifying that be, or, you know, there's, there's things to think of that can give you perspective to see, okay, I can find gratitude.
So I really encourage people to find that because that can help pull you from a dark space and kind of pull you up to finding the beauty because it's always there, but it takes mind power and it's a daily process. It's not always easy.
victoria: It's a practice, right? It's a practice,
tara: for sure. Yep.
victoria: Have you figured out what your why is with horses?
What your deepest intention is?
. I think it's comes down to love and,~ um,~ like I love them. I feel resonance with them. I, they're my life in so many ways. ~Um, ~and,~ uh,~ like a soul's calling, like it just feels right to be with horses. When I. Started doing Linda's work.
tara: I was like, this feels right. This is what I'm meant to do. ~Um, ~and I do want to say this too, because there's horse people listen to [00:59:00] your podcast here. Is that I feel like horses are here to help advance humanity right now. I really, truly feel that, that this is a time of great change. There's a lot of light.
There's a lot of dark and horses have really stepped into this role to help us transform and transition out of a Darker phase of humanity. I mean, if you think of horses, the reason why we're so successful as a human civilization is because of horses. Like we rode them into battle, you know, they carried us around up until the creation of the automobile.
And they've been such a major part of our civilization. So it's important to honor them. And I feel like now with all this horse therapy, equine facilitated learning, or whatever you call it, they're really here to help. As transition and transform into a new awareness and they're very needed now. I really feel like there are beings,~ um,~ very aware beings.
Like I feel like dolphins and whales are this way. Horses are like this, that are very evolved. they're kind of beyond what our brain can comprehend. I think [01:00:00] there's much to say about that.
The Intelligence and Mysticism of Horses
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Josh: that's so well said. We, we have a lot of discussions around here, just about.
different types of intelligence and, paradoxically, like the, the, you evolution and creation of artificial intelligence has brought some of this discussion more to like the mainstream, which I think is fascinating. And just Just that comprehension of like, what is intelligence as a human society, intelligence is what has helped us survive and thrive as a species, you know, our ability to create things and tools, et cetera, et cetera.
But with that, I think has come a bit of like a house of mirrors where it's like, We're the most intelligent things on the planet. We're the dominant species. We control everything. We decide what's going to happen. You know, blah, blah, blah. I just don't think that that's really the truth. So when we start thinking about, well, what is intelligence, like what if your dog was seeing something that you are not perceiving, obviously horses and dolphins and whales.
They're living on a different sphere we don't know, you [01:01:00] know, similar to like artificial intelligence. This is something that is a unique intelligence that we actually, our intelligence is not able to comprehend, you know, and it's kind of equal parts, humbling and inspiring and. Just leaves me with a feeling of wonderment of like, wow, what really is possible, what, what's going on out there, you know?
and I think that speaks to part of why, centering the horse too, and equine guided learning and equine guided therapy is so important rather than just using them as like tools for our own methods. maybe that's a good time to ask you a little bit more about.
Exploring EponaQuest and Equine Guided Learning
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Josh: Epona Quest and, and Linda Kohanoff's program, because I've looked at a little bit of, her books and her work, just immense respect.
And it just seems so profound, but I've never been on the inside, never taken workshops or anything like that. I just wonder what is your perception of that work having studied with her? Now you're an instructor, a teacher, if somebody came to you and didn't know anything about equine guided [01:02:00] learning and just said, what is it you do?
Like, how would you even explain that? a
Its
tara: a hard thing to explain, to be honest. I get it, yeah. It's a It's hard, yes. That's why
Josh: I selfishly asked you. I'm hoping you can help me explain it because it's very hard, yeah.
tara: well what I say to people is that I teach opportunities for self awareness.
There are reflective exercises that are more inward, and then there's also more leadership exercises that are more active. I talk about heart coherence and ~um, ~like heart math, the fact that horses have such large hearts. And that's something that is incredibly healing to humans because we humans were taught to work from our brain, but we ignore the heart and the gut and horses work from their hearts and their guts.
the fact that they have such huge hearts, that's one reason why they're so calming to be around. And ~um, ~They help really evoke and reflect whatever stuck emotions we have. I talk about, that I teach about [01:03:00] boundaries, emotional message chart, like I spoke about grief earlier,~ um,~ authentic and false self.
There's work about facing your shadow. and EponaQuest program, there's just so much she teaches. It's a very proficient program. I, Pretty much try to convey like it's an opportunity for self reflection and awareness with whatever it is you're wanting to develop. And I can draw on various tools and exercises to help create whatever experience people want.
And honestly, I find that, you know, I'm holding space as a facilitator and I'm directing what's happening, but the horses do a lot of the work just by being, and, and that if a client is drawn to be there with a horse, like. Just me being quiet and holding space for them to be with the horse. Kind of like my experience when I first saw an equine therapist, just standing with a horse and being quiet.
Just help shed so much light on what it is I needed to heal. So does that [01:04:00] help?
Josh: It does. It does. Thank you. I know how challenging it is to, to just put words to that. it's almost like back to the intelligence, you know, it's hard to. put words to these things because they're not necessarily of the level that we're used to putting words to, like even spoke about the gut and the heart.
Like those are type of intelligence, and maybe we could say intuition or mindfulness, embodiment, you know, we, we have words that point to the way, but nothing really encapsulates it either. So yeah, I thought you did a great job explaining it.
tara: You just did too. Also.
Yeah,
victoria: there's an, like an element of mysticism and I, that, that word always pops into my head. It's like, how do you explain the unexplainable too? That's something that I go back to,~ um,~ which is not really that helpful
Josh: when we were talking to our, our friend, Chrissy, it was just. Next door to you and Maui, we, we were just always like magical.
Awesome. You know, those words work [01:05:00] good too. Like, I don't know. It's just magical or it's just awesome AF. You know, like, yeah,
victoria: she's like, you guys say awesome a lot. Like, well,
tara: Guilty. Good word. Yeah. It's a generational thing, too. I noticed. Awesome. Awesome's in my vocabulary, too, but mysticism, that's a great word to bring in.
I like that, too. I think
victoria: in, certain spiritual, philosophies, I think there's like certain things can't, there are no words for, and that's a little bit of what we're trying to. Explain and it's fun to try to explain the unexplainable. I mean, that's why we're here.
That's why we're having this conversation. but yeah, and then at the end of the day, just saying, well, it's really awesome and magical.
tara: I hear that. I agree. I could.
victoria: Nice.
tara: Meeting of the minds.
victoria: I think you, you've pretty much answered this, but, but just to, come back one more time and just make sure we have this articulated.[01:06:00]
Personal Reflections and Lessons from Horses
---
victoria: What have the horses taught you about yourself?
tara: Hmm. that's a great question that gets right to the heart of it. the horses just reflect where I'm at, like they, there's, there's no, excuse my French, bullshitting with them, like they just really reflect me, like I can't hide behind whatever, a small, a smile or something I might do with a human that I connect with, like I can't, there's no putting any false facades around them, ~um.~
So they give me the opportunity to be real and vulnerable with whatever state I'm in, if I'm upset, if I'm mad, you know, they really are just there and they're accepting me with whatever state I'm in. So it's, it's very, very healing and it's really a gift. Like a lot of times I'll find I'll go out to feed them and it's almost like just being around them evokes whatever I'm feeling, whether it may be frustration where I find myself.
Like just expressing it and letting it out and,~ um,~ just their, their presence. They're so loving and just so real. Like they [01:07:00] are who they are with their authentic selves, as all animals are really. yeah, so it's just their real authentic nature is a tremendous gift to me and I'm so grateful.
It's, it's almost like, we humans, I think humans are wonderful, but we get so caught up in our heads and there's all these weird projections Sometimes I'm like, Oh my God, I just want to be around my animals. They're just so pure. There's none of that weird mental processing that happens. they constantly just reflect back of like, okay, Tara, where can you show it better?
Where, how can you drop into yourself? And, and, you know, they, if I'm in my authentic self, they will show up for me. If I'm, on my phone or self absorbed, like they don't really connect with me that much, so they're just constant mirrors. So beautiful.
victoria: what I hear you say Is love.
And so then if I'm trying to connect these lessons to your why love and
tara: love, is that fair? Yes. I guess so. [01:08:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's all about love. Love
victoria: is all you need. Love is all you
tara: need. I had shirts made recently. One of them is Comanche the wild Mustang, of course, about my book, but the other one, it's,~ um,~ a beautiful mermaid design.
It says, choose love over fear. And that's my... Logo, choose love over fear, and that's what's also gotten me through so much. So yes, I can say the horses helped me with that as well.
victoria: Yeah, I just was rereading,~ uh,~ Frederic Pignon's book. I don't know if you've ever looked at any of his stuff.
tara: Yes.
victoria: Yeah. ~Um, ~amazing horseman.
He's like on a whole magical and awesome. Yes, he's magical and awesome. Af and mystical. I feel like he's part horse. But anyway,~ um,~ I just read this line, just, it's funny that I just, it kind of stuck in my head. He said, with horses, you have two options. Love or fear. You've gotta, Choose love if you're going have any [01:09:00] path with horses. So I, I just think that's perfect.
tara: I love that. Thank you for telling me that. I didn't know he said that, that he said it all right there, right?
victoria: we just have a few more questions before we finish up, but,
Future Projects and Final Thoughts
---
victoria: how can our listeners and Josh and I keep following your journey and engage with your projects? what's, what's on the horizon for you?
tara: Yeah. And
Josh: while you're talking, I'll put some of your,~ um,~ Websites up on the screen for anybody that's watching the video and they'll all be in the liner notes,
tara: great. Thank you. ~Um, ~yeah, I've always got a gazillion projects going on. I'm sort of like nonstop project woman. I have to stop myself from doing things. So I'm writing a few books right now. ~Um, ~I wrote this book,~ um,~ with,~ uh,~ Nico we're in the process of doing another kid's book.
This one is about a mermaid here in Hawaii it's about ocean conservation and plastic conservation, plastic awareness, because there was a beautiful sperm whale that washed up on the shore here in Kauai in January. That was. choked by plastic. ~Um, ~so [01:10:00] sad. it's a book about plastic awareness and reducing plastic usage and just how our oceans need to be cared for.
So that's going to be coming out at some point. She's working on the drawings. I'm also working on two other books concurrently. One is a book about healing. ~Um, ~that's combining my philosophies about healing, not so much my story, although my story is in it. ~Um, ~It's combining the healing power of horses and also some Hawaiian spirituality.
And so I'm working on that. I'm also writing a book about my family lineage here in Hawaii and Kauai because my,~ uh,~ Dad's side of the family is from here from the Portuguese side. they've been here since the 1870s. So the Portuguese history in Kaua'i,~ um,~ which is really fun. ~Um, ~then I do the horse sessions.
I'm still on my healing journey. So that's a constant just tuning into myself. ~Um, ~I am,~ uh,~ training facilitators, like I mentioned earlier to do the grief work, the grief rituals with horses. Just mermaiding and being in joy and being with my horses and just... Continually growing I love to [01:11:00] dance. I love to take photos. So yeah, it's just showing up the best that I can.
Josh: Yeah. I, I see you doing that. That's beautiful. the work with helping people. That are facilitating,~ um,~ work with horses to help them with grief, I think is really, really profound. What's the best way for people to reach out to you if they wanted to learn more about that?
tara: probably my email tar at wind horse sanctuary. com. I mean, I've got so many social media channels. Yeah. That website. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's best to email me. I get a lot of messages on social media and it's just gets a little overwhelming. So email is usually best. I get that.
Yeah. Thank you for asking. I appreciate that. Yeah. I just think
Josh: that's so important and, and you don't hear about it much. So, and we work with a lot of people that are in. The industry. definitely happy to help spread the word about that. Cause it's just one of those things that's so important.
Like if you're not dealing with [01:12:00] that, you're not going to get where you need to go. I think it's safe to say
tara: it's true. That's true.
Josh: And your books too, like work, are they on your website?
tara: They're on my website, but they're also an Amazon. They're on Amazon and,~ um,~ Barnes and Noble online, but I also have on my website.
like you're mentioning my memoir, grace, grit and gratitude. That's on audible. ~Um, ~yeah. And then I have. Facebook pages, Instagram pages, YouTube page, Tik TOK. I I'm all over the place. Generally is Tara Coyote. You can find me wherever you want. Most likely.
Josh: Great. Yeah. We, we got your book on audible.
It was really, really cool to see it was on there.
tara: Thank you. Yeah. Read by the
victoria: author, which is always a treat. So it was just wonderful hearing your voice,~ um,~ tell your story. if you could tell people just three things, this is kind of our rapid fire portion of the podcast, Three things that are meaningful about horses, , if you [01:13:00] just had to distill it down what would they be?
tara: I would say presence, if I could put another word in there, authentic presence. and then love, there's that word again, love. ~Um. ~And then I think my third word would be healing. Yeah. That's an excellent question. We'll
victoria: take those. Thank you. What does your dream day with horses look like? It seems like you're already kind of doing that.
tara: I am. I am. Yeah. I mean, I, I think my friend told me once, she's like, you're like Pippi long stockings.
You just live with your horses. my favorite thing is Sundays. I close my gate and I don't usually plan anything. That's my day to just be by myself or. You know, just do what I want, but have no plans, have spaciousness. And I just let them roam around freely. And it's just so joyous and wonderful. Like they come and hang out with me for a bit.
Then they head out. It's almost like I feel their liberated sense of freedom. And that helps me feel free, which is [01:14:00] very important to me. So I think just being with them, like not necessarily doing anything. ~Um, ~Just allowing them to be authentically who they are. And I do, I have that. I feel extremely blessed that I live with them.
I call my life living with horses. So, yeah, there you go.
victoria: Great. And, and
tara: when
victoria: it comes to the horses, something you feel gratitude for.
tara: Hmm. Yeah. I think just the way they continually show up, they're just always there. Thank you for asking me that. That's good for me to really take that in. It's, it's so easy to take for granted these beings that are just always there.
It's good to acknowledge that. anytime I travel, I've been traveling a lot the last. Many, many months, like I miss them after a certain point, I, I'm aware of like, Oh, I don't have my horses around me, you know, I can start feeling that space they hold for me. Ah,
victoria: yeah. Thank you. That's, that's a good one.
Yeah. Well, [01:15:00] this has been wonderful. This has been amazing.
tara: Yeah, this has been
Josh: really nice. I, I hope we can get to know you better and hopefully you can visit us if you come over to the West coast.
tara: I would love that. Thank you so much for the interview. This has been really fun.
Such an honor to chat with you both.
victoria: Thank you for this conversation too. I, feel like there's just some beautiful takeaways that you've shared. With us and with whoever's going to listen. there's just some moments. I had a lump in my throat for about half of it there. but in a really, I feel a lot of gratitude for that lump.
So thank you for sharing your story and, and taking this time with us. I really, this is one of my favorite conversations to date.
tara: Oh, thank you. I've done a lot of podcasts too. This is one of my favorite too. I love the conversation with you both. Thank you.
Josh: It's nice to hear. Yeah. I just want to recognize you for.
Telling your story. I know how difficult that actually is. It's one of those things that sounds easy, but when it comes down to it, it's not as easy as it [01:16:00] seems and just for really living, those values of grace, grit and gratitude, it helps show us, you know, your stories. Dramatic, you know, you've gone through a lot and it helps remind us of what's possible and that to the end of the day, it is all about love.
And I just think that's beautiful. So thank you for bringing that to our life and thank you for talking. And now we get to share it with more people and that that's what it's all about. So I appreciate you and your work.
tara: Thank you. Thank you for the work you both do too. Holding sacred space and getting the message out about the horses.
It's very important. Big honor and respect to you both. Thank you for that. Yeah. Thank
victoria: you, Tara.
Josh: Well, till next time. Aloha and aloha ma.
tara: Aloha ma. Yes.
I hope you enjoyed the show today. We'd love for you to join our free sub stack community for the herd is calling connect with us, engage in thoughtful [01:17:00] discussions and access exclusive content. Click the link nearby to subscribe. It's so easy and totally free. We appreciate listening. And as always, may the horse be with you.
